Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"

I have not been posting because medical condions leave me unable to work at this point (cataracts) or see or read very well (5 more months ugh), slow as it was before. I am thinking I would just like to get one done, and am looking to simplify. I have taken up basic classical, but I would like to use all steel strings, be that electric, or lights, and need some help calculating top thickness for a steel string classical with the lightest decent sounding steel strings, I am assuming all the same brand, not half classical steel, and half light brand X.

This will be a retop on an alvarez most likeley a cheapie, and not sure if it would need a truss rod.

I have also noticed ebay luthier supply is off the charts, going from 1200 or so items to now 7000 items for sale, yikes...!

Help appricialted, I would be using my side bending heat blanket to take off fretboard, and then top remival> maybe the back. well, not this time...

Author:	Frei [ Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
I have not been posting because medical condions leave me unable to work at this point (cataracts) or see or read very well (5 more months ugh), slow as it was before. I am thinking I would just like to get one done, and am looking to simplify. I have taken up basic classical, but I would like to use all steel strings, be that electric, or lights, and need some help calculating top thickness for a steel string classical with the lightest decent sounding steel strings, I am assuming all the same brand, not half classical steel, and half light brand X. This will be a retop on an alvarez most likeley a cheapie, and not sure if it would need a truss rod. I have also noticed ebay luthier supply is off the charts, going from 1200 or so items to now 7000 items for sale, yikes...! Help appricialted, I would be using my side bending heat blanket to take off fretboard, and then top remival> maybe the back. well, not this time...

Author:	Jim Kirby [ Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
First, what is the motivation here? Are you trying to turn a classical guitar into a conventional steel string guitar, or are you trying to build something with the geometry of a classical guitar but with light gage steel strings instead of nylon? If you have "taken up" classical, what is the attraction of steel strings? I hope the questions are meaningful. It's not clear what direction you are intending to go with this. Jim

Author:	Phillip Patton [ Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
Frei wrote: I have not been posting because medical condions leave me unable to work at this point (cataracts) or see or read very well (5 more months ugh), slow as it was before. I am thinking I would just like to get one done, and am looking to simplify. I have taken up basic classical, but I would like to use all steel strings, be that electric, or lights, and need some help calculating top thickness for a steel string classical with the lightest decent sounding steel strings, I am assuming all the same brand, not half classical steel, and half light brand X. This will be a retop on an alvarez most likeley a cheapie, and not sure if it would need a truss rod. I have also noticed ebay luthier supply is off the charts, going from 1200 or so items to now 7000 items for sale, yikes...! Help appricialted, I would be using my side bending heat blanket to take off fretboard, and then top remival> maybe the back. well, not this time... I built myself a "classical steel string". It's my favorite guitar. I made it just like a steel string, as far as things like bracing, and truss rod. The only resemblance to a classical is the fingerboard width and body shape/size. I can post pics if you want.

Author:	Frei [ Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
Yes, pleasxe post pics. The fingerboard is the main issue, and using an already built guitar to get the dang thing done. I dont like nylon strings, is the main issue.

Author:	Phillip Patton [ Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
Frei wrote: Yes, pleasxe post pics. The fingerboard is the main issue, and using an already built guitar to get the dang thing done. I dont like nylon strings, is the main issue. Here are all the shots I have showing the fingerboard: Hope this helps. Phillip

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Author:	Frei [ Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
Those are great! Do you have any soundclips? What string guages are ou using? How thick was the soundboard? I was thinking look at around 3mm if using a standard X brace setup, but Im not sure what the lb pull is for light classical and light SS, or electric. This is with a stiff 'classical type wood, Carpathian or Adirondac.

Author:	wbergman [ Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
I think the point is, if you build it like a steel string, you do not need to try to locate extra lite strings. If you want a wider fingerboard, like classical, that does not have much effect on the rest of the guitar. Unless you have very fat fingers, you may not even need the wider fingerboard. I think most fingerstyle steel string players use a standard width steel string fingerboard. Why don't you just try using an ordinary steel string for a while. I play classical and have big fingers, but occaisionaly I pick up a steel string and play a little, and I seem to do OK.

Author:	Phillip Patton [ Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
Frei wrote: Those are great! Do you have any soundclips? What string guages are ou using? How thick was the soundboard? I was thinking look at around 3mm if using a standard X brace setup, but Im not sure what the lb pull is for light classical and light SS, or electric. This is with a stiff 'classical type wood, Carpathian or Adirondac. I don't really have any sound clips. I need to get a good player to record something for me. But I'll see what I can do. I think these strings are mediums. I might try lights next time I change strings, just to see how it sounds. The sound board was around 1/8" in the middle, thinning a little toward the edges. I used the standard x bracing, and it sounds pretty good to me.

Author:	Frei [ Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
What I want is a classical guitar using steel strings. I guess I am using a standard X bracing, so like an om or sorts, as it would be easier to do, but understanding teh lbs force appleied to the top and getting the thinnest top for light strings is the goal. Clasical strings are 60-90 lbs STill dont know it you can use electric strings on a classical and if they are just not build for that style playing. This is more a classical than a classical shaped OM, because of the lighter top.

Author:	Scotty [ Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
Quote: not sure if it would need a truss rod. Classicals of course are generally built without a truss rod - the flat fingerboard stays pretty flat under the load exerted by classical strings. If you use steel strings you "might" end up with too much neck relief, and thus a truss rod would be a good thing to have!

Author:	Jim Kirby [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
I think if you are building a top to carry steel strings, you definitely need a truss rod or at least a carbon bar in the neck. But, I have to admit, I'm confused about the intent. If a classical sound is what you are after, you aren't going to get that on a steel string guitar. If you want to go with a classical slant in steel string fingerstyle playing, then there isn't really any reason not to go with a regular steel string guitar - just go with the widest normal neck variants, largest fingerboard radius (or flat, but some classical builders now sneak a radiused fretboard onto their guitars). As a steel string player who ended up being a classical guitar builder, I have to admit that I had a lot of trouble with the shift to the sound of the nylon strings. The G string in particular. Initially, I always substituted composite G strings, in an attempt to wake that particular part of the spectrum up. Finally, I came to the realization that getting the G string to not go thud was part of the challenge of building the instrument, and so far, my only answer to that challenge that has been successful is to build the tops more than marginally too light (to the point that the one Granada luthier who I've shown it to so far has said that he wouldn't let that guitar out of his shop - it's a warranty nightmare waiting to happen)

Author:	Frei [ Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
I want to retop a classical guitar for the lightest steel strings. Now, electric guitar strings match the lb age of classical guitars, so in theory, you could just build a straiht classical top, but if you were to use the lightest steel string guage available (big ?), then you need to thickness the top thicker etc. Nylon strings are out, I have a Yairi that I will never match anyway. The other issue is X brace or standard blassical brace, and I think standard X brace, so extra light steel strings, but how thick for the top? X braces may be under 1/4 thick depending on the strings.

Author:	WaddyThomson [ Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Need help with string guage, for 'Classical Steel string"
I know a couple of people that have used "Silk and Steel" strings on classical guitar. They don't have as much pull as a set of light acoustic strings.

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