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Some help with scale lengths?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=26658		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  DanN. [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Some help with scale lengths?
I've been reworking my first guitar, a knock-off Les Paul, and I want to replace the fretboard. It doesn't go with the theme I'm shooting for, it has some pretty bad grooves dug into it and most of the frets are worn or dented and need replacing. Here's a picture,

Image

Yeah, I know the nut slot is a mess, I'll clean it up later.
The lighter areas are the pits, maybe a millimeter or two deep.

Regardless, I have absolutely no idea what the scale length is. I know the radius, widths and thicknesses but I'm stumped as to how and get the scale length. Unfortunatly, in a fit of rage discovering that the nut was plastic, and HOLLOW at that, I tossed it :oops: , so measuring it from nut to bridge or nut to 12th fret is out. Any recommendations guys? Also, how accurate am I going to have to be here to get the scale to intonate correctly? I have a ruler that goes to 32nds, Should I see if I can't dig up a more precise one? Thanks for any input fellas.
Author:  Stephen Boone [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with scale lengths?
I would think that it does not matter if the nut is there or not. You can still measure from the nut end of the fret board to the center of the 12th fret. Multiply by 2 and you should have it. Once you figure out the scale length you should be able to find published data for fret distances etc...
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with scale lengths?
Someone correct me if I am wrong here, and yes fret locations given a scale length still mystify me (I have not studied it yet), but simply measure from the 12th fret to the edge where the nut was. Multiply by 2 and that is your scale length.

Mike

Edit: Stephen already said that... so what he said!! oops_sign
Author:  TonyKarol [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with scale lengths?
frets are calculated using the 12th root of 2, which is 1.059463 ......

12 equally tempered notes, in half the strings length ....
Author:  DanN. [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with scale lengths?
Alrighty then, I'll see if I can't do that.

Compensating for the missing nut just a smidgen, I'm coming up with around 24 3/4". Assuming I was off by a bit, I'm guessing it probably has a scale of around 24.625, only off by 1/8th. Sound reasonable?

I was using a ruler only accurate to an 8th of an inch, so It's likely I misjudged or over compensated a bit.

Also, while we're at it, what would be the best procedure to remove a fingerboard without damaging the wood beneath? I've heard steam is pretty effective.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with scale lengths?
I would pull the frets re level the board and re fret. you will do less damage and re fretting is a great skill to learn. Heat the board if removal is what you will do. make up a thin tool that you can work in as the glue softens.

I would also google fret board removal, there is lots of info available on the web.

Fred
Author:  DanN. [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with scale lengths?
I'll be fretting, binding and possibly inlaying a pre-slotted and radiused fretboard, Fred. So while I might not be taking them out, at least I'll still be putting them in and shaping them. Also, thanks for all the tips.
Author:  letseatpaste [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with scale lengths?
You run a high risk of damaging the edge of the neck when pulling the fingerboard, especially if this is your first go-around and you don't know what it was glued with originally. If you pull up even just a little wood along the edge of the fingerboard you'll have to fill and refinish. There's also very little tolerance when retrofitting a new fingerboard on an old neck. Pulling old frets and refretting is a challenge just by itself, but your chances of success are higher.

Frank Ford has a good way of repairing those divots on frets.com if they bother you that much. It involves slicing the wood fibers and then "fluffing" up the fibers to bring them level and using glue and wood dust to fill. Then you don't have to sand off so much of the rest of the fretboard. I haven't tried it yet but I have an old Sigma dred I've been thinking about trying it on. They don't affect playability as much as you would think, though.
Author:  Steve Davis [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with scale lengths?
Dan
I would measure from exactly the edge of the fretboard at the nut end to exactly the middle of the 12th fret in millimetres +- 0.5mm. Divide this number by 25.4 for the scale length in inches.
1/8th" inch is too much error. The StewMAc free infromation section has scale length calculators etc
Fred Tellier wrote:
I would pull the frets re level the board and re fret. you will do less damage and re fretting is a great skill to learn.

Save yourself some money and headaches and Take Freds advice....or at least attempt that before you pull the board. Removing FBs is not quite as easy as it looks and can result in cosmetic damage or worse.
I would try my first removal on $25.00 pawnshop special
Author:  DanN. [ Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with scale lengths?
haha fellas, don't worry. This was $50 when I bought it, I'm not too worried about damaging it. It was either rework it or let my friend smash it on stage, and it pains me so to see guitars broken. Heck, I'm more worried about damaging the new fretboard than I am the neck. But, I suppose in my down time I can always practice refretting on the fingerboard, and if it works why bother replacing it. Off to google it is, thanks guys!
Author:  oli-lgw [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Some help with scale lengths?
don't want to be the devil's advocate or anything, and these guys have way more experience than I, but I'd say go ahead and remove the board. It's a great experience, and if it's a cheap guitar and you want to experiment, you can take the risk of ruining it. It's not with a good, expensive guitar that you have to try things like this in my opinion. I changed the fretboard on a bass for a friend last year, having never attempted such a task (but knowing how to do it and having done some research prior) and it went really really well. I took a clothing iron and heated the fretboard starting at the nut: move it a bit but always stay in the same portion of the board to soften the glue and regularly pry it with a knife; don't force anything too much. Move your way slowly up the neck. Watch out for the last part in order to minimize tearout! Afterwards, I only needed a little sanding to remove glue residue from the neck, glue on the new board and voila! I also needed a little filing along the sides to make the neck and board fit perfectly and get rid of any ridges, but this was really minor. Maybe I was lucky everything went so well, but I'd say it looks scarier than it really is. But as I said, I don't have as much experience as the others who replied before so there might be a good reason they advise you against doing it :D

Whatever you choose to do, good luck! [:Y:]
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