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| How long to leave clamped? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=26612 |
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| Author: | coke_zero [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | How long to leave clamped? |
I haven't really seen a list like this before so I was wondering if I could get some input. I am as some you know working on guitar #1. One thing I have probably lost a lot of time on is waiting longer than needed for things to dry after gluing & being fearful of the glue joint coming apart. I am using white wood glue, but it would be good to hear comparable drying times with things like HHG and other glues people use for different tasks. The main things I was wondering was how long do you leave things clamped when gluing: * Gluing kerfing & neck/end blocks * Bracing * Top to sides * Back to sides * Fretboard to neck * Various other applications For instance I have glued my back to the sides today, how long should I be looking at before I am safe enough to remove the clamps are continue working? I know a bottle of wood glue says leave for xx time, but that doesn't refer to an instrument which will be under a lot of tension in the not so distant future. Thanks all. |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How long to leave clamped? |
I leave the clamps on as long as I can ! BUT -you only need to leave them on for an hour if your glue joint is good+humidity is 50%- But as is states on bottle-do NOT stress the joint for 24 hours. Even though I have with NO failures . Better to be safe than sorry ! I use white & fish glue. The fish glue I leave clamped for as long as I can -only because it has a longer open time-there for it may need extra clamp time. Mike |
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| Author: | Dave Fifield [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How long to leave clamped? |
If I were you, I'd ditch the white glue and use LMI's Luthier's glue or Titebond I. You can unclamp in as little as 1 hour then put the work aside for another 24 hours to cure. This frees up your clamps/jigs to get going on other things if you need to. Cheers, Dave F. Ha! Mike posted the same answer as I was typing! Oh well..... |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How long to leave clamped? |
I work mostly at night, and time my gluing sessions to let them cure overnight, which is enough for just about any glue. Certainly for HHG or Titebond. Although others might disagree I don't see the advantage to unclamping soon after the glue sets. Too soon for my taste. For me it was a good excuse to buy some more clamps. 
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How long to leave clamped? |
As Mike has hinted, the answer depends a lot on the humidity and temperature in your shop. Even air circulation (fan) can make a big difference. Also, how did you 'clean up' squeezeout when gluing (did yu use much water?), and how much excess glue was there? I tend to err on the 'too long clamped' end of the scale. I usually have other jobs I can work on while the glue dries/sets if it's during daytime. Overnight is always convenient as well. Cheers John |
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| Author: | coke_zero [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How long to leave clamped? |
I allowed 10 hours for the back gluing and everything seems okay. The squeeze out was easy to clean up with a scraper. I will allow it to cure over night. I have just glued the X braces to the top which I will leave overnight and until I get down to the shop about 2pm which will be over 12 hours. I guess until I start to acquire more clamps I will just play the waiting game  .
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| Author: | Robert Renick [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How long to leave clamped? |
Coke, Nothing to add about glue time from what the others have pointed out. About an hour to remove clamps if you need to use them again, more is peace of mind. About losing time on the build though, I hear ya on that one. I am sort of on build one as well, and shop time is valuable. I take into this project some years of other woodwork experience, all with deadlines, hard and cold. Deadlines in woodworking loom large as processes take time to dry, and many cannot be hurried. So it becomes all about the lists. A good list will keep you working when the glue is drying. My listing method on this has been helping me quite a bit. There is so much to do, and remember and consider, and reconsider, I got to spinning, then I got to making the list. I first divided up the sections of building, these main topics reflect the chapters of the Cumpiano book pretty well. Neck, plates, body, assembly, finish, setup, jigs, materials needed. Under each topic I list everything to do, with a special mark for the glue ups that require clamp time. Under each category I circle the next thing to do, making sure that glue ups are done daily, so I don't need to rush the clamping time. Today I was gluing linings, but while waiting for the glue to dry, I got my back glued up, won't start on that till later next week. One issue with white glue is that there is moisture put into the wood, though the glue dries and becomes strong in 24 hours, the moisture IMO takes a bit longer to completely release to a balance. In the days of my deadlines, fortunately past, I would hurry something, sand and finish and get it going, but I noticed a slight hump on the seam would occur a few days later, like I could feel the glue line. I did not notice this if I gave it more time to settle before sanding. Just for kicks, like a kick in my butt, I put a soft deadline on this first build, I will be visiting family in May, and would like to take the guitar along, seven weeks to go, not sure at this point if I am on track, since this is new, but it helps me think efficiency in the shop. Hopefully not too off topic here, Rob |
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| Author: | coke_zero [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How long to leave clamped? |
Comfy, it's a good thing I'm not on a deadline or I'll be toast. I am starting a section of the guitar and really getting my teeth in it until that part is done. I have tried to avoid doing many things at once. I have mainly done this as I don't want to get confused on what I am doing, also I am learning as I go. It was only after I started my build I realised that plans aren't as detailed as they could have been, so things like bridge location was missing so I need to sit down and work out all that stuff later. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How long to leave clamped? |
Sounds like I do what a lot of folks do and I plan my glue-ups so they can just sit in the clamps overnight. If I need to pull something out quicker then the length of time I wait really depends on the type of glue; they're all different. |
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| Author: | cwood8656 [ Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How long to leave clamped? |
For what it's worth, I also try to plan glue up timing so the piece can sit overnight to dry. I almost always have some other part to work on during drying, although I often wish for more clamps. Like everybody..... Chris. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How long to leave clamped? |
It depends on what you're gluing. I use HHG for pretty much anything. When gluing something flat, and thin, like a bridgeplate or headstock overlay I believe it's best it clamped for a while. The water in the glue ( not just with HHG, but Titebond, LMI white, Fish glue or any other water based glue) will make a thin flat piece cup, pulling the center of the joint together, but pulling the edges apart. I leave this stuff clamped at least overnight, but usually try to plan so this isn't a problem. Braces, linings, ect I'll leave clamped for at least an hour. For stuff like attaching the fingerboard to the neck, or gluing neck laminations I use epoxy. I leave it clamped at least 24 hours. Humidity will have an effect on drying time but, IMHO if you glue stuff together for a musical instrument with the humidity above 50% you're asking for trouble. |
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How long to leave clamped? |
Assuming you work in a controlled environment (45% RH, temp above 65º): Quote: * Gluing kerfing & neck/end blocks 45mnQuote: * Bracing 45mn, but I do not carve the braces and tune the plates before the following day.Quote: * Top to sides 45mn, I glue the back before the top -which allows for some cleanup if needed-.Quote: * Back to sides 45mnQuote: * Fretboard to neck Overnight, and use a caul that is hard, thick and dead flat.Quote: * Various other applications Woody gives good advice, whenever gluing thin stock it's a good idea to leave it clamped until the moisture in the glue has evaporated. It also helps to dampen the other side of the stock (the one that doesn't get glue). I also leave the bridge clamped overnight, which is a good idea especially if the wings are feathered.White glue works fine (as in Elmer's?), but it releases at lower temps than Titebond, and has more chances to creep. So never leave your guitar too long in the hot summer sun, in or out of the case. Titebond 1 would be a better choice… |
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| Author: | Chris Ensor [ Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How long to leave clamped? |
These are the glue times that I learned from Sergei de Jonge. Use with discretion: Note: "wood glue" refers to titebond 1 |
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