Hi. I'm a little baffled by all these Cedar species... How does Port Orford Cedar compare with Western Red Cedar in terms of density, tap-tone etc? And how about Yellow Cedar, what is that? Are all the North American "cedars" softwoods?
Thanks
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| Author: | Sondre [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Cedar questions |
Hi. I'm a little baffled by all these Cedar species... How does Port Orford Cedar compare with Western Red Cedar in terms of density, tap-tone etc? And how about Yellow Cedar, what is that? Are all the North American "cedars" softwoods? Thanks
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| Author: | Zach Ehley [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
POC and Yellow Cedar are not true cedars. They are of the Cypress family. Cedar is lighter and softer and leads to a more mellow tone. POC and Yellow are closer to spruce than cedar, I believe. I have some POC, but dont have yellow, so my statement on that is just based on reading. I believe Yellow is more spruce like than POC as well. Someone correct me if Im wrong. |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
Western Red Cedar is not a true cedar as well and is also a cypress if I recall. I've only ever worked with Western Red and the Yellow cedar. They are both great tonewoods in my limited experience working with them. Yellow cedar is pretty tough stuff and usually needs to be thinner than the red. The Western red is much more prone to splitting than the yellow. They are all softwoods. (coniferous as opposed to broadleaf deciduous). |
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| Author: | Markus Schmid [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
Darrel Friesen wrote: Western Red Cedar is not a true cedar [...] Yes, it's not. Darrel Friesen wrote: [...] as well and is also a cypress if I recall. No, it's a species of thuja (Thuja plicata) 
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| Author: | coke_zero [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
I was going to post this question myself actually. I recently board a load of red cedar from someone who offered it to me for next to nothing as they were getting more business for back and sides than top woods these days. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
Thuja? Really? Does it then contain thujone? (absinthe component thought by some to be psycho-active) |
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| Author: | Markus Schmid [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Thuja? Really? Does it then contain thujone? (absinthe component thought by some to be psycho-active) Yes, really. But I don't have an idea if guitars with red cedar tops are more psycho-activating than other guitars... 
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
Not sure why you are rolling your eyes at the question... I actually thought your point of knowledge was interesting enough for me to go search for answers. As it turns out, many things contain thujone, to include some mint plants and also Arborvitea, Juniper, and even common sage! Did not know this. Mike |
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| Author: | Markus Schmid [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Not sure why you are rolling your eyes at the question... Oh, that is just because for me, any guitar and any wood is psycho-activating! Oh well, you also my call it "exciting".Mike O'Melia wrote: I actually thought your point of knowledge was interesting enough for me to go search for answers. I really don't know which substances western red cedar contains, but I assume that within a species most substances are just varying their percentages. I'm not a biologist but about an year ago I started to compile a list of wood names in various languages to find a way through that Babylonian jungle of wood names.(Click on the bold "Nombres Científicos y Populares de Maderas", at the moment version 2.11 - the contents of the Excel ® or Open Office ® table is "multilingual", e.g. also in English). Mike O'Melia wrote: As it turns out, many things contain thujone, to include some mint plants and also Arborvitea, Juniper, and even common sage! Did not know this. I hope you'll still keep building guitars with yous cedar tops, don't brew absinthe with them! (just kidding).
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
Ha! I was more concerned about the saw dust! Or, the Port Orford Cedar Oil one can by to refresh older cedar. Thanx, Mike |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
Markus Schmid wrote: Darrel Friesen wrote: Western Red Cedar is not a true cedar [...] Yes, it's not. Darrel Friesen wrote: [...] as well and is also a cypress if I recall. No, it's a species of thuja (Thuja plicata) Looks like we're both right (of course I'm a little righter cuz I said it first  ) according to wikipedia "Western red cedar (Thuja plicata), also Western redcedar, is a species of Thuja, an evergreen coniferous tree in the cypress family Cupressaceae.
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| Author: | JohnAbercrombie [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
I've used yellow cedar a bit for laminated sides and recently for the back and sides of a 'flamenco-ish' guitar. It really doesn't share many working qualities with Western Red Cedar (or spruce) in my experience. The yellow cedar I've used is a very even-grained, plain (no obvious grain lines show), tough and quite flexible wood (when thin) with a very characteristic (you love it-or not) odour. It's a very easy-bending wood. Yellow cedar is also called 'Alaska cypress' by some folks. I wouldn't put it in the same category with more common 'top' (soundboard) woods like the spruces and Western red cedar, though it (like mahogany) has certainly been used successfully for soundboards by some. Cheers John |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
Well, being a self-proclaimed sound hole sniffer, and also a liker of Spanish Cedar, and to some extent Western Cedar, I am wondering where the scent of Port Orford comes in at. Guess I could order some PO Oil and find out. Though I find the scent of Aromatic Cedar nice, I would not touch it for anything in a guitar. Mike |
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| Author: | Robert Renick [ Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cedar questions |
Mike, and others, I know Port Orford is not all that common, but right here where I live it is. We have a local place that makes picnic tables and such with it. They let me go through their stash and buy at $1.25 a board foot. Not much in the way of VG material, but some of the flat grain is very flat and tight. I am doing some laminated necks with it right now. Any way, if you want a stick to give it a sniff or mess with, PM me. The shop foreman said they will get a new delivery mid March and he will try and select some material for me. It is a love it or hate it smell, intoxicating. Rob |
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