Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - What kind of wood is this?

Sand a bit off and take a sniff...if something along the lines of slightly burnt chocolate brownies, it might be be BRW

I have been dealing with DALBERGIA NIGRA for about fifty years now.
My Father made guitars in the New York City area and this came from his estate and was clearly marked. He would never touch Pau Ferro or Santos!
This wood has been sitting around since 1987.
When I cut into it there was a noticable Rose smell in the work shop maybe due to the large amount of cuttings. I have sold 47 blocks of this on Ebay with only one complaint, yours.
Sorry that you think you got taken!

Pau fero still makes a nice guitar!

Have you looked at the pores? Pau Ferro has tiny pores, whereas BRW has medium-sized open pores. You can check out the "CITES wood identification guide" and search for 'Machaerium' and 'dalbergia nigra'.

http://www.cws-scf.ec.gc.ca/enforce/pdf/wood/Cites_Wood_Guide.pdf

It's not perfect, but it may help you determine with more certainty what kind of wood you got.

best, Christian

Author:	enalnitram [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:11 am ]
Post subject:	What kind of wood is this?
Three pieces, each is 1 1/2" x 9 1/2" x 5/16"

Author:	WilliamS [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
Pau Ferro?

Author:	Rod True [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
Looks like Koa from here.

Author:	JimWomack [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:37 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
Another vote for Koa

Author:	woody b [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
Cameras, browsers and monitors (as well as my eyes) can play tricks when looking at pictures of wood. It looks like pau fero, morado, bolivian rosewood or one of the many other names for Machaerium scleroxylon. It doesn't look like Koa to me, but it could me my browser, monitor or eyes. Smell is the best way to tell for me. I'm curious, was it sold to you as Braz? I guess that's possible if it smells right.

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Author:	Rob Warren [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
Todd Stock wrote: Sand a bit off and take a sniff...if something along the lines of slightly burnt chocolate brownies, it might be be BRW ...and if it smells like cinnamon, might be Pau Ferro. I've used a bit of it recently, and it looks very close to the stuff I've had.

Author:	enalnitram [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
Well, I'm kind of a newbie and I bought it on ebay, thinking I was getting a brazilian rosewood bridge blank. I cut it up and gave some of it away. It didn't smell chocolately at all. so dude says: Quote: I have been dealing with DALBERGIA NIGRA for about fifty years now. My Father made guitars in the New York City area and this came from his estate and was clearly marked. He would never touch Pau Ferro or Santos! This wood has been sitting around since 1987. When I cut into it there was a noticable Rose smell in the work shop maybe due to the large amount of cuttings. I have sold 47 blocks of this on Ebay with only one complaint, yours. Sorry that you think you got taken! The seller offered to refund my money minus shipping. but after recovering pieces, shipping it back, and all, I think I'll just keep these pieces and practice making bridges with em before I try it on something more valuable. They'll still be ok to use on something. Live and learn. Should this forum have a section devoted to "be wary of these sellers or websites"? It could be really helpful. Even if my seller believes what he says, he is still in reality selling something as something that it isn't. ps. bigmikeyc1

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
As others noted it looks like Pao ferro. This thing about Braz smelling like roses is a bit over the top… It may vaguely ressemble a rose smell when cut wet, but when cut seasoned it doesn't smell at all like roses. At least not those I smelled on planet Earth. It has a very pleasant fragrant smell, but so does Honduran RW.

Author:	enalnitram [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
verhoevenc wrote: Pau fero still makes a nice guitar! I'm totally with you on that. (Gorgeous pic by the way!) Still, you can't ignore all those factors out there, such the "ooh" you get when it's BRW, or the fact that one just costs more than the other. I'm all for focusing on the end result as well. But deception, whether intentional or not, is still a drag.

Author:	Christian Schmid [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
Have you looked at the pores? Pau Ferro has tiny pores, whereas BRW has medium-sized open pores. You can check out the "CITES wood identification guide" and search for 'Machaerium' and 'dalbergia nigra'. http://www.cws-scf.ec.gc.ca/enforce/pdf/wood/Cites_Wood_Guide.pdf It's not perfect, but it may help you determine with more certainty what kind of wood you got. best, Christian

Author:	bluescreek [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
I had bought some "Dalberia Nigera" off ebay from a seller. He claimed it was and gave me the same line. . It was not and Ebay refunded my money.

Author:	WaddyThomson [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
If it's heavy, it could be Cocobolo. I saw some Sunday night that looked exactly like that. It was Nicaraguan Coco. It does not have the yellow/orange colors that other Coco, I have seen, has. More dark brown and light brown tones. I didn't think it was, but the person who had it brought it back from there 20 years ago. It looked a lot like Amazon Rosewood, to me.

Author:	Rick Davis [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
"Should this forum have a section devoted to "be wary of these sellers or websites"? It could be really helpful. Even if my seller believes what he says, he is still in reality selling something as something that it isn't." Yes there should be a section and it should be labeled "If you don't know the seller, don't buy it." Let the experience of other Forum users be your guide. There are many legitimate vendors on eBay (Hi John Hall!) but many more dubious ones. And wood identification isn't easy. Smell and appearance are not sufficient. Scientists measure specific gravity, pore size and density, and many other factors down to the nearly-microscopic to get a good i.d. Even then, without bark, leaves, and seeds, they usually hedge their findings by saying "most likely" or "probably." Some years ago, I bought some "Brazilian" from a fellow builder who had a bunch of the stuff. When it arrived, I really didn't like it but since he was an acquaintance and more experienced than I, I just shelved the wood and figured that I'd appreciate it more later. In a month or so, the seller called me to say that the wood had been keyed out by a wood scientist and that whatever it was, it wasn't Brazilian. He got the wood back and -- eventually -- I got my money back. Honest mistake, honest seller, and a lesson in the difficulty of selling and buying wood. Don't deal with unknowns and if it seems too good to be true, assume the worst.

Author:	enalnitram [ Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
Thanks, Rick. Good advice.

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Author:	Dave Fifield [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
Christian Schmid wrote: Have you looked at the pores? Pau Ferro has tiny pores, whereas BRW has medium-sized open pores. You can check out the "CITES wood identification guide" and search for 'Machaerium' and 'dalbergia nigra'. http://www.cws-scf.ec.gc.ca/enforce/pdf/wood/Cites_Wood_Guide.pdf It's not perfect, but it may help you determine with more certainty what kind of wood you got. best, Christian Thanks for posting that link Christian. That document was VERY helpful to me. I too have a piece of wood that I purchased on eBay back in September 2009 that was supposed to be Dalbergia Nigra, but I've always had my doubts about it. After checking it with my 30x jeweler's loupe and comparing it to that document, I see that it's obviously NOT Dalbergia Nigra. When I sliced it up (last night) into 3 classical bridge sized pieces, it actually looks just like the stuff Martin bought inside. It was obviously stained or dyed on the outside to make it look darker! I'm going to keep going with trying to identify it using the pictures in that document. FWIW, I have quite a bit of real BRW (bridge and fingerboard blanks, and a couple of b/s sets) that I also compared it to, and all of it looks EXACTLY like it should do per the tropical wood identification document. Interestingly, I had some other "rosewood" bridge blanks that I didn't know really what they were, and can now positively identify them as Dalbergia Latifolia (EIRW). I emailed the seller asking for a refund of 2/3 of my money. I'll see how it goes..... Cheers, Dave F.

Author:	Colonial Tonwds [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
I'd put money on it being Pau Ferro.

Author:	Jim Kirby [ Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: What kind of wood is this?
Looks like the Pau Ferro I have too. Nothing wrong with it unless you are one of the people who are very allergic to it. it's nice wood. Build with it.