I suppose bending the string up a semitone at the 19th fret would be frowned upon
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| 20 fret classical - soundhole question http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25813 |
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| Author: | Christian Schmid [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
I love "Un Sueño en la Floresta" by Agustin Barrios Mangore. No other piece of guitar music touches me as much as this one. Since quite some time I have thought about learning this piece. I have now started, but it's going to be a long journey. In fact, part of the journey will be to build a guitar for it, as I will need a 20th fret. Now simply having a 20th fret on a Hauser design would mean that part of the fretboard will extend into the sound hole, thereby reducing the effective sound hole size. What would you do? a) not care b) slightly increase the sound hole diameter to compensate for the lost area c) have the neck joint at the 13th fret (which would probably alter the sound more than a slightly smaller sound hole?) d) something else? thanks, Christian |
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| Author: | Eric Reid [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
Why Hauser? I associate Barrios with the great Spanish luthiers, (and with steel strings). Segovia had a soft spot for German precision, and for fascism. Is there any other reason to revere Hauser? |
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| Author: | Dave Fifield [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
Shorten the scale length to 630mm? Dave F. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
Extend the fretboard under the E string only, or the E and B. Add the same amount of area to the hole, if you think it matters. Probably about 2mm in radius, or less. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
Exactly as Howard said. Colin |
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| Author: | Dave White [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
I suppose bending the string up a semitone at the 19th fret would be frowned upon
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
The way Howard put it is the regular way. I think you can increase the size of the hole from 84 to 85, or leave it at 84. Shouldn't really make any big change, there are 100 other things that come before this. I cut mine after a 37mm circle internally tangent to the sound hole circle. I am happy with this size, not too big not too small. I also don't like the corners to be too rounded, but that is a matter of personal taste. Here are a couple pics from a guitar I started to french-polish. |
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| Author: | MaxBishop [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
Wow! Beauty, Alexandreu. The smaller circle tangent to the regular sound hole gives a very refined "classic" look. If I ever do an extended finger board I will use this approach. Best wishes, Max |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
Thanks, I'm glad you like it! |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
Here's mine. I didn't change the sound hole dimension. It didn't seem to make any difference, or the soundhole was too big anyway. Attachment: 2502.jpg
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| Author: | Stephen Boone [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
I have recently been testing sound hole radius. I make the actual sound hole deliberately too small and with a decibleometer and a strobe tuner I measure the effects and enlarging the sound hole one mm at a time. Opening the sound hole does make the box louder and lowers the frequency. These measurements are small however and the effect of a small portion of the finger board covering the sound hole will be minimal if you can measure it at all. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
Here is a pic of how I do my 20th fret. |
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| Author: | Christian Schmid [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
Great...thanks a lot - your implementations of the 20th fret look really good ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") .I'll probably have more questions along the way. As to why Hauser...well...I have the plan, and I really like my Hauser copy I have at home. It just never occured to me to be using another plan. cheers, Christian |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
Steven Boone wrote: "Opening the sound hole does make the box louder and lowers the frequency." Every time I've tried this making the hole bigger raised the pitch of the 'main air' mode, and that's in line with Helmholtz' predictions. You can just move the hole down a little. I regularly end up with a 20th fret, and it doesn't seem to make any difference in the sound having the hole that low. |
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| Author: | Stephen Boone [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 20 fret classical - soundhole question |
Thanks for that correction Alan. I always get that mixed up! Raise the pitch. This is why I have a note book and need to go back and read it every time. |
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