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Hump somewhere
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25804		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Hump somewhere
OK, So I have been breaking in this Martin Style OM. But I appear to have a buzz/deadening on frets 5-8. I have tightened the truss rod as far as I dare. It already takes effort to tighten anymore. What should I do now? Let is set and redistribute? Get my fret crowner and buffer wheels out to lower the frets?

Thanks,

Mike
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
You may not know what you need to do . Just tightening the Truss rod isn't the answer. Start with relief , also , did you level the frets ? Check for loose fret end ? So lets look at what you need to do , first what is the relief? that is the gap between the 6th fret from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string with the strings fretted on the 1st and 13th fret.
You want about .004 to .010 clearance. Then what is the string height at the 12th fret when the string is in a natural position ( not fretted ).
Once you know the neck is right and the frets are properly dressed and secure , we can go futher.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
You are correct John, this is most def a case of not knowing what I do not know. I will get those measurements for you.

Mike
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
is that Eegor or Eyegor
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
Measured off G string, 6th fret is 0.062, and 12th fret is 0.088

No strings were fretted while doing those measurements (that is how I understood it)

Hate to ask this, but is properly dressed mean?

Mike
Author:  DannyV [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
With my limited experience I have found a fret rocker to be a very valuable tool.

Good Luck,
Danny
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
Sounds like the angle may not be right. Did you level the frets when you made the neck ? To do this you adjust the truss rod to get the neck as straight as possible , Then use a magic marker and mark the frets . With a 6 inch file you want to work the file up and down the neck so that all the black mark is removed , and the frets are on the same plane , A slight drop off from the 14th fret to the 20th is normal so don't try to get this area perfect , . That is where you will see the 14th fret hump.
Once the frets are level you check with a straight edge and adjust the relief. Before I do the nut I want to rough check the action with a straight edge on the 1st fret and saddle adjusted so I have about 7/64th at the 12th fret bass string. At this point I proceed . I want to have 1/2 string height at the bridge with about .150 saddle exposed. I will accept 9/16" total string height but not more that .
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
Straight edges can be better . If you are not familiar with a fret rocker you can make the problem much worse. With a straight edge you can see where and which fret is high. I use machinist parallels , they are accurate to within .00005 and at 6 inches long can float over a section of frets.
Some beginners have a hard time and over adjust frets . Using a 6 inch file helps to float over them and as you watch the black come off you can see the high frets clear first and the low frets hold on to the black . Once all the black is off you can recrown . I mark them again and watch the black as I crown frets and let a a small amount of the black .
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
From what Mike has been saying, I get the very strong impression that he should STOP. Do not start filing the frets. You have likely been making the problem worse by tightening the truss rod. No offense intended, but you do not appear to have a good handle on neck geometry. See if you can find a good tech to let you watch the guitar be set up.
Author:  ChuckB [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
Like Howard said, you may be making the situation worse by continuing to tighten the truss rod, causing a hump (backbow) roughly in the area you are getting the buzz. If the neck angle is correct and the frets have been leveled and re crowned as John explained, take Johns' advise and begin by setting the relief at .005 to .010. Then set the nut hieght, followed by action at 12th.

Chuck
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
How much relief do you have in the neck, I have a feeling you have little or none if you have tightened the truss rod that much. As for the fret rocker it is a great tool for a quick check if one fret is high, the nice thing you can check between the strings so removing them is not necessary to check the frets.

Fred
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
As stated earlier , he needs to straigthen the neck by adjusting the truss rod, then level the frets, That was explained earlier in the thread. I agree don't willy nilley file frets until the neck is straighten and frets checked.
I agree if you can talk to a tech , get it to them and let them walk you through it. You need to do this is an line of order. if you want to call me Mike you have my number.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
OK! [uncle] So I do not know what I am doing. However, I understand what John is saying. Everybody has to start somewhere. I did, BTW, expect to get hammered for this one!

Thanks!

Mike
Author:  Rod True [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
Mike.

Back the truss rod off all the way. Check to make sure the frets are level. If not, level the frets then go on to setting up the guitar which is relief, nut height then action at the 12th fret.

Here's how to check the relief.

To check the relief, fret the D string at the first fret (use a capo is helpful) and also fret it at the 14th fret. While fretting the string at both locations, measure using feeler gauges (or two pieces of paper is fine) till there is about 0.008" clearance between the string and the fret. You will need to tighten the truss rod to allow the neck to bow back (toward the player) and this will decrease the gap between the string and the fret.

Once you have this set, we can move forward
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
Thanks Rod... will do.

Mike
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
Filippo Morelli wrote:
Mike O'Melia wrote:
OK! [uncle] So I do not know what I am doing. However, I understand what John is saying. Everybody has to start somewhere. I did, BTW, expect to get hammered for this one!


Mike,
You didn't get hammered. I think you got straight up advice. I bought a plane ticket and flew to Colorado so I could go through a complete setup on a classical guitar. I think the advice to go through the exercise watching someone experienced is very wise advice from my experience ... and I still have little clue what I'm doing (though I left clueless to now the "dangerous" stage ... lol). Otherwise, yes someone can walk you through it indirectly as I'm sure John will.

Let us know what happens and what you did to solve when it's all said and done.

Filippo


Thanks. Perhaps I will follow advice and attempt a walk through with John. The advice is all good and I never mind admitting ignorance in any area. It's not like there are any well known builders in my area. Of course, Nashville is only 90 miles away. Any builders there willing to help me?

Plus, tool recommendations are welcome.

Mike
Author:  L. Presnall [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
Todd Stock wrote:
What hump?

Sorry...could not resist.


"That's FRON-KON-STEEN"! :D

What a classic movie!
Author:  WudWerkr [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hump somewhere
L. Presnall wrote:
Todd Stock wrote:
What hump?

Sorry...could not resist.


"That's FRON-KON-STEEN"! :D

What a classic movie!



I wanna know if they are " Lovely Lady Humps "

K now we have musical refrence laughing6-hehe
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