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What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
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Author:  Hesh [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
As some of you may have noticed I endeavor to start threads that I hope will be interesting to a wide variety of OLFers and more importantly to me I try to make these threads be something that encourages everyone to participate. :? :)

Not that I am out of ideas mind you, far from it...., but I wanted to ask OLFers and hopefully OLFers who are not the usual ones who dominate the conversation (I would include myself in this group that dominates the conversation.... for better or worse) to suggest topics that you would like to discuss, please?

To make this easier I am providing a list of possible topics below but don't let that stop you from indicating what you would really like to discuss.

The OLF has never been a place that just sends a member to the archive if they ask something that we have discussed before. Instead we like to beat topics to death over and over and have the same old individual arguments with each other over and over again too.... it seems to be what we enjoy here.... :D But it would be nice to have threads result that could be very good reads for anyone wanting to search the archives and not ask about something in real time.

Here are some possible topics but your suggestions are really what this thread is about.

1) Repair
2) Set-up
3) Finishing
4) Voicing
5) Materials selection (specifics could be just tops, B&S's, etc)
6) Glues..... [headinwall] :D
7) Marketing/Sales (they are not the same thing...)
8) Shows (how to talk to a thousand people and not have your feet hurt..)
9) Business Structure for a Lutherie business, taxes, insurance, etc.
10) Competition
11) Advertising
12) Teaching and students in your shop
13) Safety (first aid, emergencies, etc. this is not toward the bottom for a reason and is very important)
14) Tradition of guitar building
15) Resawing
16) Setting up our tools (bandsaws, sanders, etc.)
17) Carving like Kent and The Padma do (again this should be higher on the list and is here at the bottom for no reason in particular)

And of course, and this is the real goal here, what ever else that you would like to discuss that is Lutherie related?

Thanks! :)
Author:  WudWerkr [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Hey Hesh , I know Im a regular . But does anyone have info , comments , video they would share on resawing . How its done properly . How to do it from say a 12" square block of wood . How to determine the grain and quartersaw it . To me that would be an interesting topic and very enlighteining . Esp. the Quartersawn aspect? Seems to me we have had several people ask about Quartersawn wood over the last year.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Every now and then
I wanta talk about Me
I wanta talk about I
I wanta talk about number one
yes me o' my

Sorry Hesh Toby made me do it :evil:
Author:  jncllc [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Bracing and voicing would be my vote
Author:  Edward Taylor [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Good idea Hesh,

Personally my votes for voicing, materials, resawing and tool setup.
Author:  Cocephus [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Good question, Hesh!
I`d like to see more discussion on neck resets and setting them up after the fact.
IMHO this should include the No-Name brands that seem to come crawling out of the woodwork. eek

Coe Franklin
Author:  Gtrman13 [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
I would like to see a database of as many kinds of wood as possible stating the target thickness of each for back, sides, and soundboard. Also the best bending temperature for each would be very handy. This type of stuff might be common knowledge for some, but for new builders like me, it could be very handy information.
Author:  Dave Stewart [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Kind of depends "where you're at", re skills, numbers of builds etc.
I'd like to see more on voicing/ tuning /coaxing out the best as it relates to ARCHED instruments (no surprise)....very little out there.
Also, anything helpful re the business aspects (marketing / shows / advertising /getting going etc)
Author:  Wade Sylvester [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Hey Hesh bud,
A subject that I have been thinking about for a while is a compare and contrast of the choices for amplifying our acoustic creations. We spend a lot of effort to make an "acoustic" instrument, than our client wants to stick a pickup on it so they can play it on stage.
What do we choose or advise and why?
Author:  Christian Schmid [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
It's not really a discussion...but I think an OLF wiki would be really cool. Like an additional subforum. There are so many little gems here and throughout the archives. These could be topics like:
"What is long-grain stiffness and why do we care?"
"What is cross-grain stiffness and why do we care?"
"What are Chladni patterns and how to interpret them?"
"What is deflection testing and how do you do it?"
[...]

These are topics that come up again and again and I think having a wiki with the compiled knowledge of the forum could be really neat.

Christian
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Christian Schmid wrote:
It's not really a discussion...but I think an OLF wiki would be really cool. Like an additional subforum. There are so many little gems here and throughout the archives. These could be topics like:
"What is long-grain stiffness and why do we care?"
"What is cross-grain stiffness and why do we care?"
"What are Chladni patterns and how to interpret them?"
"What is deflection testing and how do you do it?"
[...]

These are topics that come up again and again and I think having a wiki with the compiled knowledge of the forum could be really neat.

Christian


In theory this is a great idea but I suspect it would require a full time tech writer to put it together. I know the forum can't afford that and I suspect Hesh would have a hard time finding the time as well. Now having members volunteer to write a chapter at their leisure could be done. But the Wiki would be slow growing creature.
Author:  Marcus [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
The topics that stick out in my head are: Set-up, Voicing, Tool Set-up. I would love to know more about carving, but I get the sneaky suspicion that it's one of those "practice makes perfect" kind of things...

However, I am just a beginner still, so I would welcome any discussion on any of those topics.

*edit*
Oh! I just thought of one not on Hesh's list (I feel so smert)

Jigs, Jigs, Jigs. I can't get enough of these things.
Author:  Robert Renick [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Recent post on the driftmaster fence made me realize that I need to learn more about resawing.
Other interests:
1)Voicing never gets old.
2)Students and teaching in the shop, setting up and preparing the shop for student use.
3)Sales and marketing as it relates to an amateur going pro. This transition to selling guitars seems to be a hot topic in terms of repair skills, warranty, outsourcing and disclosure.

For the Wiki idea, perhaps the tutorial section could be divided by subject. Actual toots could be the top links in the subject with the replies being focused on individual's variations of the technique.

Each subject could have a questionnaire about a process. As an example, under side bending one thread answering the following questions:
Type of jig-
layers in the bending stack-
cycles in form
Bending notes per species including thickness, time.
Pros and cons of the technique. why does your set up work for your specific needs.

I really don't know all the questions to ask but I guess my basic idea is a questionnaire about specific processes which would allow a reader to compare techniques and come away with an idea of which variation of the process will work for their individual needs.

Hesh, thank you for keeping the soup stirred, your threads really help keep this going and interesting.
Rob
Author:  Mike Baker [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Some discussion of the business side of things would be helpful. How and when to graduate from hobby to actually selling/marketing yourself and your work. Also, how to determine pricing, and how to manage the business.
I know that a lot of this kind of stuff can be kind of dry and/or boring, but it's
valuable info. IMO, this kind of info is the kind that beginners need most and probably lack the most.
I'm (still) on my first scratch build(I'm primarily an electric builder). I'm just beginning, but I hope in a few years(5-10) to be doing this at least semi-professionally. I can use all the advice I can get.
Author:  James A. [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
I agree with the above post. Some really good info on how to move from hobby to business would be great.
Author:  DannyV [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
I think this would be a great place to have a tool and machinery review area. I can't imagine a group bunch of people who would put more input in to the good and bad of any tool. Not to mention the vastness of peoples quivers and the high expectations of some. Where else could you find a review of a $30 Blue Spruce hole poker. I'm still trying to wear out my Stanley just so I can buy one. Could be a while. I think it was my Grampa's. :D A place to compile all the this info for others to source would be great.

The other thing I need is a toot or two on mitred purflings. The easy way, not the hard way.

And thanks for asking, Hesh.

Cheers,
Danny
Author:  Rob Warren [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Voicing, voicing, voicing...and voicing...

I'd really like to hear some of the ideas others have when it comes to brace shape, etc. Parabolics anyone? I've watched the Kent Evertt DVD twice now, and while this shows HIS approach, I'd like to hear more as to the why theories. I guess I should just go ask the question and see what happens....

Thanks for taking an interest in what others are looking for, and for starting all those fun topics lately Hesh [:Y:]
Author:  jason c [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
I would like to talk about anything archtop. More specifically about laminating tops and pressed solid tops.
Jason
Author:  Edward Taylor [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
DannyV wrote:
I think this would be a great place to have a tool and machinery review area. I can't imagine a group bunch of people who would put more input in to the good and bad of any tool. Not to mention the vastness of peoples quivers and the high expectations of some. Where else could you find a review of a $30 Blue Spruce hole poker. I'm still trying to wear out my Stanley just so I can buy one. Could be a while. I think it was my Grampa's. :D A place to compile all the this info for others to source would be great.

The other thing I need is a toot or two on mitred purflings. The easy way, not the hard way.

And thanks for asking, Hesh.

Cheers,
Danny


Danny this is a great idea. Maybe a sub-forum, I am sure it would become a great resource for all.
Author:  coke_zero [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Talking about bracing would be great. Especially about how to go about making braces without a radius dish. Also how different radius' do different things. I have always been under the assumption a radius top/back is to prevent it collapsing but I would be interested in hearing how different radius' affect tone etc.
Author:  Hesh [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Fantastic! It's great to see so very many excellent topics suggested and of course this thread is not at all over yet either.

Of course anyone and everyone is encouraged to start the topic of your choice - that is actually my goal here to help keep the discussion interesting and providing the kind of value that OLFers want to see. If you do want any assistance in how to approach a topic I am always happy to help too - your choice.

So far there is a great list of topics that I never considered and as such I am copying this thread for future reference.

The Wiki idea has come up before, I was personally against it because of the time suck aspects and as Todd mentioned the tendency here to adjudicate or at times overly adjudicate (double jeopardy.... :) ) and I appreciate that Michael did not want to commit me, well he didn't want to take up my time without considering me.... :?

But you know I would like to participate here in peace too, like anyone else, and if this is something that the majority of folks would appreciate, Lance and Brock approve, the stimulus bill funds.... (sorry I really am this kind of a flake at times.... :? ) then I would volunteer to work with Todd and perhaps Filippo to help make it happen. Thoughts guys?

So please keep the ideas coming and they are being recorded for future action.

Thanks! :)
Author:  DennisK [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
comfyfoot wrote:
Bending notes per species including thickness, time.
Pros and cons of the technique. why does your set up work for your specific needs.

I'd also like to hear peoples' experience with this. I'll likely be bending freehand on a pipe (haven't actually started my first guitar yet), since I don't have any current plans to build the same shape twice. I suppose pipe bending is mostly about feel, but thickness and general hot/not too hot info would be useful, as well as tips like bending curly maple totally dry to avoid cupping, which I've heard in a few posts.

coke_zero wrote:
Talking about bracing would be great. Especially about how to go about making braces without a radius dish. Also how different radius' do different things. I have always been under the assumption a radius top/back is to prevent it collapsing but I would be interested in hearing how different radius' affect tone etc.

+1 to this as well. Especially making braces without a dish, since I'll be attempting that sooner than later.

Another topic I'd love to hear some experienced thoughts on is instrument design. Like, the effects of soundbox shape and volume, soundhole size/shape/position, and how to decide where to put your braces to start with, before getting into the voicing. Especially bracing on harp guitars. Most I've seen with a hollow arm have way less in there than I'd expect to be needed to support 5+ sub-bass strings.
I'm not in a position to apply any of it for a while though, so unless someone else wants to start the topic sooner, I'll wait until my first guitar is finished, or close to it.
Author:  lachrimae [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
I completely agree with the Wiki idea but I don't think you should have to dedicate a resource to the project.

The very nature of Wiki is collaborative so I suspect that a large number of members will help to build the knowledge base over time (myself included).

I have utilized the search feature on this forum more than I care to admit (thanks!) and have learned a lot about repetitive information and how to sort through it :). The wiki would probably cut down on repetitive posts (if that is something you want) and make it easier to find information:
- Action: Low/Med/High action specs. Relief, string height @ 12 etc... + some famous player setups.
- Bridges: Good materials, typical height, saddle angles, drill bit size for prelim pin hole before reaming etc...
- Compensated Nuts
- the list goes on...

Even if it started with some pages pointing to the best threads from this or other forums, it could be flushed out as time progresses.
E.g.
==========================
Pyramid Bridges:
This page is a placeholder, feel free to edit and add information.
In the meantime, check out these resources:
Allen McFarlen's Tutorial http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10117&t=17431&hilit=pyramid
Frank Ford's Tutorial http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Bridges/IvoryBridge/ivorybridge.html
==========================

Just thinking out loud here...
Author:  Chansen [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Setup (all aspects), methods for the various jobs (again, all aspects), resaw.

I am a skeptic in general, I don't much care for the "mystical" aspects of guitar making such as tap tone, glues, finish, liners, solid vs. lam sides (specifically their affect/no affect on tone). I respect the tradition (and breaking of tradition) of these things but don't want to get into big debates about how "this way" sounds sooo much better. I'm more of a "proven it works" guy. I say to each his own - I just want to see what you do, how you do it and why (with facts :) ).
Author:  Hesh [ Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What Would YOU Like To Discuss On The OLF?
Your suggestions have been added to the list guys - thanks! :)
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