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Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25729		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
Ok I know that there is science involved in sounding tops , I have read up on people doing various things . I dont have the advantage of Computer equipment. I dont have the advantage of yrs of experience in doing this . I dont have any coffee right at this moment ! So I decided , I need to figure out a way to try and cut tone bars and sound the tops based on what I have availabe in my shop .

Soooooo I drank several beers and did some looking around , drank several more . And I hit on an Idea .

Well after the beers had worn off , cause it was about 10 pm when i Thunked of it . The next afternoon I put me lil plan into action.

Now , Before You all start Laughing at me , remember i WAS drinkin pizza laughing6-hehe

So what i did was I took my lil shop radio and i tuned it to a country station "ozzy dont soung good on mando" and i turned the volume up till i had a bit of distortion . I placed it Speaker down on the top Directly over the bridge area, with it clamped to the box and I adjusted the tone bars till the sound came out clear and sharp .
Attachment:
100_0534.jpg
Obviously this is a glued unit i set for the pics sake , radios not even plugged In , wasnt that Hammered !!

Ok Now you can all laugh at the redneck science ! laughing6-hehe
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
Hi James - I am not sure that I am following what you are doing, besides drinking.... :D, so is your idea to use the noise placed on the bridge area as a aid to voice and carve the tone bars? This means that the top is not attached or the back comes off right?

So this is not like the Tone-rite which is a device/method to break/play in a guitar but instead kind of a tone/noise generator and then you sample how well the box works as an acoustic amplifier?
Author:  Mark Maquillan [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
Veeerrry interesting. idunno
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
Yes Basically hesh , thats what i thunked id try . If the volume is distorted out of the radio and is comming out of sound hole clear it would "seem " ( remember im a redneck) that the viberationsto create tone are working properly . and yes its clamped into place not glued so there is bound to be some variance. Is this a good way to do it ? heck im not even convinced , however it worked . again this was a basic experiment in " working with whats availiable in my shop " and I have ONLY done this with mando's .

No Im not ready to write a book about it , im SURE i will get lotsa " your a nut" comments laughing6-hehe
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
My question would be this: Does your radio weigh the same as your bridge?
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
Nope , However it is a light radio. However its not as heavy as the string pressure would be either.

Concept born of "what do I have to work with in my shop " Might be dumbest idea ever . However I ask , did people before "advanced technology " came along experiment with "what was available" . Some of the finest martin guitars ever made were waaaaaay before computer sounding equipment.

worst case scenario , this thread will get people thinking . " might be that hes nuts" but thinking non the less laughing6-hehe
Author:  StevenWheeler [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
Well James,

It's good that your so far south, otherwise you and I would be hanging out in the shop together. And then we'd be out of beer and that experiment would look tame compared to what else we came up with.

Steve
Author:  WudWerkr [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
Hesh wrote:
So this is kind of a tone/noise generator and then you sample how well the box works as an acoustic amplifier?


Man you can say it in alot less words than I did . Obviously not enough drinking going on in your shop ! laughing6-hehe

Quote:
It's good that your so far south, otherwise you and I would be hanging out in the shop together. And then we'd be out of beer and that experiment would look tame compared to what else we came up with.


Well heck fella , i used to live in Lindenhurst , 6 miles west of 6 flags . We just might have to do that some day, ill even supply the beer and several lame ideas !! Eat Drink :lol:
Author:  Pete Brown [ Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
Hesh wrote:
noise generator

Well, he did say it was a "country" station! beehive

Cheers
Pete
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
Some years ago I was doing an experiment on 'playing in', driving the top of a guitar and checking to see how it changed over time. I used a 'stinger' driver, a modified loudspeaker that clipped onto the bridge, and drove it with my radio. At first all the speaking voices sounded like they were under water: it was hard to make out words. Then, one morning after the weekend when I came into the shop, I could understand them clearly. That's when I could hear a change in the sound of the guitar.

What's interesting is that I could measure changes in the way the thing responded before that, but it didn't sound any different. There seems to be a 'threshold effect', where the change has to reach a cetain level before it becomes noticable.

I'll note that that was one experiment, on one guitar. It's like saying:"All Indians always walk in single file, or at least the one I saw did". As usual, more data...
Author:  Dave Rickard [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
Did you say free beer :)
Author:  Dave Rickard [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
Mmmmmmmmmmm I like BEER :D
Author:  the Padma [ Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Science ? Maybe , Maybe Not , Seems to work
Alan Carruth wrote:
Then, one morning after the weekend when I came into the shop, I could understand them clearly. That's when I could hear a change in the sound of the guitar.

What's interesting is that I could measure changes in the way the thing responded before that, but it didn't sound any different. There seems to be a 'threshold effect', where the change has to reach a cetain level before it becomes noticable.



Yo Alan,

This is interesting to me Alan...

I wonder if this this "threshold deffect" of "understanding them clearly" was because of something happening to "the consciousness of the wood" in the build or to the consciousness of the listener filtering out "the water"...You know...like being able to understand the new dude with the thick accent after a few days of talking with them.

However, we do know a fair amt. about the induction principles of energy and sound vibrations from one medium to another and the "alleged" effects of such transfers. I mean , I remember seeing that wine glass shatter from its proximity to a high frequency sound wave, and then there is the Tone Right gadget and similar "make it sound better" devices and other such unites that act as energy transfer devices, I think they are called faith healers. I mean like energy is energy being transferred from one source to another via the principle of induction.

Me thinks there is enough in the above two paragraphs to get brain cells moving in some of us two leggeds on this planet, don't you think?


ICU
the
Padma
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