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Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25645		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  WendyW [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
Do you always glue the side purfling to the binding before bending the binding? What happens when the binding is a species that tends to bleed color. Won't the binding stain the purfling when sprayed with water before bending. I'm using maple purfling with Purpleheart sides. Wendy
Author:  Jim Watts [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
Wendy,
You can do it separate, I find it easier to glue it to the binding first however.
When you install the binding/purfling you can cut your channel a few thousandths smaller than the binding and then when you scrape the binding flush you will have nice clean surfaces all around.
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
Wendy, you could try bending separate, then gluing them together using a clamping form before you glue them to the body. I know there are a few threads out there on making solid linings that use a gluing form. I think the concept would be the same, just a slight difference in application.
Author:  Dave Livermore [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
What should be used to glue the purfling to the binding so the glue doesn't give out from the heat of the bending machine?
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
I learned this trick from Taylor guitars: glue the purfling on to the binding strip with CA glue. It is quite stubborn stuff even under heat. It's not that it can't let go, it just doesn't seem to want to do so. The caveats would be--care in gluing the purfling to binding, as in don't also glue your fingers, and care when bending that you don't inhale too deeply. It will gas off a bit.
Notwithstanding those two cautions, this is my method of choice.

Steve
Author:  Dave Livermore [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
Thanks Steve.
the last time I tried it that way, I used Titebond III. It worked ok, but the the binding buckled in the waist area on all four sets.
This most recent build, I glued it on with CA and it broke at the waist on all four sets. But with the CA, the breakage didn't matter and you can't tell where it broke.
I'm still looking for a process that works. (I do make my own custom purfling for each build so I probably have a different take on things than those who use store bought BWB purfling (not that there's anything wrong with that.))


Wendy, I hope you have better luck than I have with the purfling.

Dave
Author:  Ken C [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
Wendy, I bend separately. I sandwich the purfling pins between the bindings, tape them together, and bend. Sometimes I am managing a lot of pieces when installing, but I find it so much easier to mitre purflings when they are separate. I use CA most of the time to install bindings, so it is easy to tape in place all the individual pieces then wick in CA. If I were installing bindings and a number of purflings with Titebond, I'd probably find handling and gluing all those pins to be a pain. Dunno.

Like most things, many ways to get to the same end.

Ken
Author:  letseatpaste [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
I learned in Harry Fleishman's class a few years ago that this is one of the few good luthiery uses for Gorilla Glue (polyurethane). It gets messy and foamy, but it works, wear latex gloves. In class we "clamped" them up between UHMW bars with stewmac tape, the glue won't really stick to the UHMW that well.

If you need to keep them separate to miter later, you can tightly tape them with the bindings and bend them that way. (edit: Ken C beat me to the punch on that)
Author:  WendyW [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
Thanks everyone, I do the binding installation with CA after it is all taped in place, so it would not be difficult to handle them separately. My plan was to tape them tightly between the bindings prior to bending. Maybe my best bet would be to tape them between some extra light wood bindings and then the purpleheart on the outside of that. I have always preglued them to the binding in the past, but if it works to keep them separate, and they are going to be taped in place for installation before hitting them with CA anyway, what reason would there be to go the extra step? Wendy
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
callyrox wrote:
I have always preglued them to the binding in the past, but if it works to keep them separate, and they are going to be taped in place for installation before hitting them with CA anyway, what reason would there be to go the extra step? Wendy


Wendy-
I've found it 'tricky' to keep the thinner veneers (side purfling) from 'wrinkling' at the waist - you really have to tape them very tightly together before bending to avoid this, especially if your bindings are on the thick side.

Cheers
John
Author:  TonyKarol [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
well .. as you can see lots of different methods.. I still use original titebond to glue the purf ot the binding,and still spray a bit, foil, then bend with a blanket in the fox .. tape tight, with the purfs IN together, in bookmatched pairs .. works for me.
Author:  WendyW [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
Wow, a lot of information and choices to make. I've used original Titebond to glue the purfling to the binding in the past and then bent it. My only reason for rethinking it on this guitar is because of the color bleeding problem with the Purpleheart. I think I will try bending separately so John, to keep it from wrinkling at the waist should I tape tightly on each side of the waist, or in the waist itself? Also, what is the best tape to use..regular masking tape or the blue stuff? Thanks, Wendy
Author:  Tom West [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
Wendy: For what its worth Ive used purpleheart with a white black purfling glued with yellow glue before bending without any problem.I bent them dry in a bender taped together as others recommend and did not notice any bleeding.Certainly everything was pristine after installation and scraping. Of course wood varies from piece to piece. Good Luck.
Tom
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
callyrox wrote:
I think I will try bending separately so John, to keep it from wrinkling at the waist should I tape tightly on each side of the waist, or in the waist itself? Also, what is the best tape to use..regular masking tape or the blue stuff? Thanks, Wendy


Hey, Wendy- don't ask me! :lol: [uncle]
Seriously- I'm still trying to get a 'system' worked out for this. Thanks for starting this discussion; I've gotten lots of good 'food for thought' ideas from the experts' responses here. [clap]

On one guitar (years ago) I did binding without side purfs and then routed a groove around the body with a Dremel side mill cutter and pressed in a square-section purfling strip. It worked but I don't think I'll try that again. (I think I got the idea from a GAL 'DataSheet' -seems too clever to be one of mine!) So, many ways to do things- which is a lot of the interest for me..
Cheers
John.
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
Todd, that is such a cool jig!
Thanks for that pic...it's worth at least 1,000 words.

Steve
Author:  WendyW [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
Tom, that's interesting that you bent your purpleheart bindings dry. Do you remember what temp you bent at? I had all sorts of trouble bending the sides, and since the bindings are made from cutoffs from the sides I'd like to not have the same problems. They are figured and water made the color do weird things and the figure ripple. Maybe I should try bending the bindings dry. It would be nice to know what the best temp to bend this wood is. Wendy
Author:  sprouseod [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
I came across this site http://www.grellier.fr/shop-show.php?page=8&lang=en
looks interesting but I have not tried it

Richard
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
Wendy, if you want to bend them together and don't want to use water, try Super Soft II from Joe Woodworker. Its a veneer softener that we've use to bend difficult sides. It should work fine for the binding. You wet the pieces you are going to bend and then let them dry overnight. Then bend as usual.
Author:  WendyW [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gluing Purfling To Binding Before Bending
Thanks Lillian but believe it or not, I used Supersoft II to bend the sides and still had problems. And the color streaked. It took a lot of sanding to get through the streaks. I think I probably used too much water before bending. I was debating whether to try bending the binding without it and dry. One thing I will say for sure, I don't care to use purpleheart again! Wendy
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