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Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
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Author:  Dan Pennington [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
I bought some maple and red cedar from Jason at CV Tonewoods for use later this year and I will need to reduce the thickness a lot. I don't have a thickness sander and would rather not have to build one. I've read some about using a plane to do the job and some about a toothed plane blade for thicknessing. Can anyone point me to some tutorials for this?
Author:  Rob Warren [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
Cumpiano's book has a section an thicknessing with hand planes. I recommend it. I've done a couple tops by hand, but got the back and sides done at a local cabinet shop. I'd recommend looking for one in your area, too.
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
Penndan, start by finding Todd Stocks videos in the tutorial section on sharpening. You and your wood will not survive the process if you do not have a sharp blade in your plane.

Then look at the threads on bench hooks.

Then pick up a "scrap" piece of maple. After spending some time getting a feel for just getting a planing across it, start out again with objectives, like getting a flat surface, then go for a flat surface at a uniform thickness. The wood doesn't need to be the same size as your plates, but it should be at least twice as wide than your plane so you have to deal with overlapping strokes.

Get a light source that you can articulate. Highlighting things just right makes them jump out at you.

Oh, and make sure you use a straight edge that really is straight. Don't ask [headinwall].
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
Dan-
Thicknessing the top shouldn't be a problem with a sharp plane and a decent workboard.

Is your maple (for b+s) very plain and straight-grained, or is it figured? What type of maple is it?
This can make a lot of difference in how easy it will be to work with a plane.

A toothed blade can be very handy in hand-planing difficult wood.

You can also use a hand scraper or scraper plane for hardwoods.

Looking into thickness sanding options might be a good fall-back for the b+s. Building a sander is not tough but they do take up scarce space and create dust. A contact at a cabinet shop might do thickness sanding, but may not be accustomed to working with such thin stock, so you may need to provide a 'carrier' board.
For the sides - which I think are more critical than the back for 'workability' issues (not sound), so you want quite uniform thickness- you can probably improvise something with a sanding drum in a drill press or similar.

Many ways to get there.... I thicknessed all the stock for my first guitar with hand tools, but I was using 'easy' woods (cedar top, mahogany for the rest). On the 2nd guitar, after thicknessing Indian rosewood with plane and mostly hand scraper, I built a little thickness sander!

Cheers
John
Author:  JohnAbercrombie [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
Dan-
Lillian's advice - good lighting with an incandescent 'study lamp', and a good straightedge (which needn't be extremely expensive, just straight) is excellent. I'd add a 4" machinist's square (for planing neck stock and scarf joints, and generally checking square) to the list, if you don't already have one.

You can make a useful thickness gauge quite cheaply. The one in the attached pic uses a $15 gauge and plywood frame. Almost as useful, and costing practically nothing, is the variant which has a pencil instead of a dial gauge. It will quickly show up areas of your plates which are thicker. The pencil style was taught to me to make the 'contours' in violin plates visible- it works. (I've misplaced mine, or would show a pic of it as well).

Cheers
John
Author:  Antonio [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
I am about to finish my first build. I had to learn how to sharpen and use a hand plane . I did the top only with that.
This is unorthodox eek but for the sides and back I start with this machine to sand 1-2 mm (sorry, I don't know the name in English) and then finished with the hand plane and the scraper plane.
It is not so difficult to control the depth of the sanding . I used a 80 grit (EU) but next time I will try with 60 grit. The machine cost me €11
Image
Author:  Mike Lindstrom [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
If you've got access to a drill press, the Wagner Safe-T-Planer works well and is relatively cheap. I have a thickness sander and prefer the Wagner for the initial heavy removal. Take light passes and keep in mind, it leaves a relatively rough surface, so don't take it down to your final thicknes with it. I've also had it tear out the edge, so you should thickness the sides before you cut them to width and profile. Of course you'd probably do that handplaning too.
Mike
Author:  Stephen Boone [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
I second the Wagner Safety-Planer. (If you have a drill press.) It is relatively inexpensive and can get you pretty close so you can finish up with a scraper and or sand paper. Thicknessing with a plane is much more satisfying but sometimes frustrating.

A bonus is that the safety-planer can be used for all sorts of thicknessing operations in addition to tops/backs/sides. You have to make jigs for it but bindings, headplates, etc. can be shaped with it as well.
Author:  Flori F. [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
If it's figured maple and you're not extremely experienced with a plane, I'd recommend you find a cabinet shop or hardwood retailer with a thickness sander.
Author:  Dave Livermore [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
Dan,
Fellow Minnesotan,
I think read in a recent post that you are trying to do this build on your screen porch someplace warm right?

In the interest of your sanity, can I suggest you find someplace around wherever you are that has a thickness sander and rent some shop time (or just ask a favor). It's well worth the money. (especially if you believe time is money.)
I know there's more to the build than just getting it done, and there are those who are all about the process, or the pure satisfaction of using hand tools for the build. BUT this is a daunting part of the build. Not as tedius as routing for and installing the binding and purfling, but it ranks up there. Thicknessing is a nightmare unless you have REALLY sharp planes, a few hours for the top, a few hours for the back and a couple hours for the sides.
The sander will get it done in much less time.

If this resonates with you, look for a cabinetry or molding shop or even a good lumber yard and see if they can help or know anyone who can.
I've gone this route a few times and have never had troubles.

This is just an alternative suggestion.

Look me up when you get back to MN and maybe we can get together to compare notes.

Go Vikes!

Dave
Author:  Dan Pennington [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
Yes, I am in Texas in an RV park, building a kit under the awning on my patio. But, I do have access to large woodworking shop that has almost any kind of power tool that I need. So, I'm not at any sort of disadvantage for kit building.

Just before I left home I bought some wood for another guitar to be built later this year at home in Minneapolis. That's the stuff that will need to be thicknessed.

I do have a Wagner Safe-T planer that I've used for a bunch of banjo making tasks, but I wanted to try thicknessing with a plane on this new wood. I use the Scary Sharp method of sharpening chisels and plane blades, so I'm sure I can come up with a plane blade sharp enough to do the job.

Also, since I've been here in Texas, I've built a binding router tower with body cradle from the LMII plans and a light bulb powered side bender to do future sides and the wood bindings that I've decided to do for the koa kit I'm working on. One can be pretty productive on a patio in the Texas tropics.

Dave - I live in Brooklyn Park, a suburb of Minneapolis. Where are you located?
Author:  Markus Schmid [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
Antonio wrote:
[...]
This is unorthodox eek but for the sides and back I start with this machine to sand 1-2 mm (sorry, I don't know the name in English) [...]

Hi Antonio,
that's an angle grinder. If you like sanding (I don't), for a few €€ more an orbital sander works better and maybe somewhat saver too (I don't like fast spinning tools).

I also have the Save-T planer but was too lazy to set it up properly to plane entire backs and sides. As I invested in some not really cheap hand planes and blades I discovered again the joy of hand planing and forgot about the Save-T planer... I use a blade with curved edge for fast and deep wood removal, and then for further planing according to the wood the blade giving the lowest cutting angle which would not result in tearout. For this purpose I prefer "low-angle" planes (the low angle just refers to the plane's bed, not to the actual cutting angle).

But of course, (trivial observation, I know) machines mostly (not always) will be faster than hand planing but also louder, dirtier and - you name it...
Author:  truckjohn [ Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
I highly recommend making yourself up a toothing iron... for everything up to and including Spruce (Though you usually don't need it on spruce).. They are easy to make out of a $2.97 BORG Replacement iron and a Dremel... Just slowly grind little dings into the blade every 1/16" or so... Resharpen to razor sharp and viola.. your own toother.

I run my toother in my #5. I use a #7 and a #4 for smoothing work -- the #7 (Really a Millers falls #22) is the Battleship -- you can hog off fairly thick shavings with it... It has enough mass to power through stock removal.

Then I have my #4 setup for taking fluffy, thin, transparent shavings -- I use this to clean up the surface after I am done with the Toother and the #4.

I end with a cabinet scraper and sandpaper.

The reason I really like a toother is that it allows you far more flexibility when working on thin stock... You can snap a thin side planing at an angle... but the toother followed by the smoother doesn't have this problem.

Best of luck

John
Author:  Dan Pennington [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
truckjohn
Thanks for the info. That's the kind of advice I was looking for. I have a couple of planes, but I don't have a #5 length. I'll have to pick up a jack plane this spring.
Dan
Author:  truckjohn [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Thicknessing Sides, Back, & Top With A Plane
Yep.. Well said.

One more thing... with a Standard "Stanley pattern" with the thin irons and thin chip breakers... If you are still having trouble with it being grabby/chattery even though it is extremely finely set... It's time to look at your Chip Breakers. These are critical to a well tuned plane. They stiffen up the irons and also help stabilize things... They require routine maintenance, just like the Irons do. Check out some of the woodworking forums hand tools sections for tips on tuning up Chip breakers. If you have an old plane, the old Chip breaker is likely warped, bent, dull, and maybe not really making good contact with the iron.

I found my old chip breakers were mostly beyond help.... Bent, warped, chipped, etc. I replaced all of mine with thick Hock units. There was an immediate difference, even with the standard Old irons (which I still run)...

This is one place that the newer "Premium" planes (LN, Veritas, Clifton) really stand out -- the thicker irons + thick chip breakers chatter far less than the old thin chip breakers and irons do... and replacing those old Irons + Chip breakers with new "Premium" units can cost $60.00+ per plane...

Thanks

John
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