Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Scarf joint + volute
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25614		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Scarf joint + volute
I've seen guitars that have a volute which is has a simple curved surface toward the headstock, and a compound curve toward the neck. The back of the headstock is sometimes covered with a "backstrap", presumably to hide the scarf joint. I'm looking to see if anyone has posted instructions and perhaps a drawing showing how this is accomplished. At this point. I'm making a test neck out of pine to see if I can make this work. Kind of difficult when I haven't got an reference point or a sample guitar! The dummy neck gives me an opportunity to screw up before I commit to a commissioned instrument!

So far, I've thicknessed a 24" blank to 25mm, sliced off my headstock piece at a 15° angle, and glued it back on with a scarf joint. Usually I would thickness the headstock piece down to about 12 mm before attaching, but this time I've left it the full 25 mm.

Now I think I have enough material to cut the back surface of the neck, headstock and volute with a bandsaw, as if I was cutting from a full-size one-piece blank. Questions:
1. what profile for the volute, and where should the apex be relative to the nut end of the fingerboard?
2. After roughing out with the bandsaw, can I use my thickness sander to do the final profile on the back of the headstock, and perhaps even clean up and establish the volute curve on the neck side?

Can anyone point me to helpful web links?
Author:  Gtrman13 [ Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
I carved a volute onto the neck of my first build just last week. After I finished, I got curious as to how others were doing theirs and I found this: http://mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX?50@140.I0R ... @.2cb6b5e1 . It's a pretty good tutorial. Maybe it'll help you.
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
Not quite sure what you mean...something like this?

Image

It's in the rough there, don't have pics of the completed item but you get the idea. I put the peak about 2-3mm behind the back of the nut slot (so roughly 5-6mm behind the 'zero fret' position, ish. Go by feel), and I build the headplate/binding area a la benedetto (tiny spruce wedge) to get the binding and purfling lined up neatly. It starts out looking something like this:

Image

Simly use a thickness sander drum or a jig on the end of a belt sander roller (plank on a hinge, making the distance between plank and idler roller constant), although I suspect I used a scrap board and my oscillating spindle sander for the shape (can't recall). Bit of cork padding for some more or less accurate cauls, ebony veneer bent to shape, maple simply clamped to shape, glued down with polyurethane glue and a lot of clamps, then simply carved until it looked right. Volute shapes are pretty personal.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
I do my scarf/volutes exactly how you are mentioning ... wood is about an inch thick to start with, then jointed and the scarf glued on .. partway down the headstock, not scarfed on the neck portion although there is no practical reason that it cant be done that way, I just dont care that much for that look). Unlike Mattia's though, i dont have the scarf wide enough to give the full headstock shape width - in fact, I scallop out some wood ont he jointer such that the wings added will allow the full side scallop of my headstock shape to be routed into the wing - I only see a joint in the curved flare out from the nut (not on the side of the heastock ala Mattia).

Once the wings are on, I plane the face flat, and glue on the headplate/sandwich veneers if any, then thickness the rear of the headstock down to the required thickness, depends on the veneer/plate thicknesses you are using. I do this in the thickness sander, and bring the curve for the volute up far enough that the rear plate will be flat where the two E tuners will mount - dont want this area to be curved or they wont sit flat.

Now glue on the rear plate/veneers. After this, it will look just like Mattia's, and is ready to carve. I like the peak of the volute to be under/behind the nut, and taper down into the neck from there.

the scarf joint is now well hidden, in fact you cant tell there is one, as all the joints are totally encased. plus the wings add even more stability to the headstock, as they usually go cross grain from the neck to the scarf piece.
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
Tony, if I'm reading you right you do it the same way I do, except with headstock wings, correct? I do wings on headstocks that don't have enough width to begin with, but the minimal joint line usually doesn't bother me; if done well, it's mostly a change in grain direction that you notice. Still experimenting with what works best, though.
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
This has been very helpful, guys. Thanks!

My trial run with a pine blank went OK. I learned that my thickness sander can't do the shaping, but a sanding cylinder and jig in my drill press can -- so that's that way I'll do it. I'm dressing a mahogany blank now, and I'll give it a go.

Tim
Author:  Philip Perdue [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
Tom,

I don’t have a lot to add here but I hope Howard Klepper reads this and shows some of his work. His Scarf joint/volute work is amazing. I was fortunate enough to meet Howard at last year’s NAMM show and was amazed by his work. Unfortunately, his web site gallery photos don’t show this part of the guitar. He uses multiple woods that create a very nice and impressive look when carved. The valute area becomes a work of art adding color and symmetry.

Philip
Author:  Setch [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
Here's how I do mine:

http://home.asparagine.net/ant/blog/?p=139

If Howard is still doing things as he used to, he doesn't actually create a volute, he blends the stacked veneers smoothly into the shaft of the neck. This is done pretty much as described above, but instead of terminating the thickness sanding at the base of the headstock to create a raised volute, the thickness continues a short distance onto the neck shaft, then tapers out to nothing by the first fret. When the neck is carved the it creates a nice bell curve of colour where the neck joins the head.
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
Very helpful Setch, exactly the kind of photo-essay I was looking for on the topic.

BTW: what diameter sanding drum are folks using to make the volute curve?
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
Thanks Philip. As Setch said, it's not a volute; it is usually called a backstrap.

Actually, the word 'volute' has come to be widely misused in the guitar world. It properly refers to a type of spiral curve that is approximated in the violin scroll. Instead we have come to use it for a reduced version of just the shape at the lower end of the scroll where the volute opens up and then stops. On banjos, this used to be called the handstop; not sure if violinmakers have a name for it. The first time I ever heard this called a volute on a guitar was when Gibson started doing it in the early 70's. The (mis)usage has become so widespread that it apparently is here to stay.

Here's one of my backstrapped necks:

Image
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
I call the thing on Martin necks a 'dart.' I think that's in common use.
Author:  peterm [ Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
Howard Klepper wrote:
Thanks Philip. As Setch said, it's not a volute; it is usually called a backstrap.

Actually, the word 'volute' has come to be widely misused in the guitar world. It properly refers to a type of spiral curve that is approximated in the violin scroll. Instead we have come to use it for a reduced version of just the shape at the lower end of the scroll where the volute opens up and then stops. On banjos, this used to be called the handstop; not sure if violinmakers have a name for it. The first time I ever heard this called a volute on a guitar was when Gibson started doing it in the early 70's. The (mis)usage has become so widespread that it apparently is here to stay.

Here's one of my backstrapped necks:

Image


Hey Howard,
what kind of tuners are those?
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
Howard Klepper wrote:
Here's one of my backstrapped necks:

Image


I plan to try my first backstrap/fretboard merge downstream from the nut on a current build. I think I've brainstormed it pretty well but I'm sure something will jump up and bite me. Any tips Howard? That's a slick looking neck.
Terry
Author:  Tim McKnight [ Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
Howard,

I have always admired that visual look on your guitars. What is the thickness of your veneers and what glue do you use for your back strap lay up?
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
Tim: Usually I do three 1/16" veneers. On the one pictured I added a thinner black veneer to pick up the pattern of the neck laminations. Titebond glue. I pre-bend the veneers.

Peter, those are Sperzel solid pros. There is a choice of button styles. IIRC, that's a #6 button, but check me on that. You can get a very good OEM deal direct from the factory on Sperzels. I've mostly switched to Gotoh 510s for the smoother feel. But those Sperzels are the lightest weight closed gear--barely more than an open Waverly.
Author:  peterm [ Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Scarf joint + volute
Thanks Howard!
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/