Thanks folks.
Peter, it may be tricky, but I figure if wheat will bend, this should too. That strip is just over 2mm wide. If I have a problem, I'll work it out, some way. Isn't the Luthery motto "Adapt and overcome!"?
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| Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25571 |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
I haven't done any build stuff here for a while. However, I was very impressed with David LaPlante's guitar at ASIA, this year, and, subsequently, was inspired by his article in "Guitarmaker" on how to do the purfling. I decided to try that, as I liked the look of his, and some I had seen on pictures of a Romanillos Guitar. Here is my version of the purfling. First, I picked out some veneer I had on hand, that exhibited good differences in color. I wasn't looking for major contrast, necessarily, but enough that it shows. The ones I came up with were, Padauk, Jatoba, Black, Mahogany, Bubinga, Wenge, and a couple of others, I can't remember what they were. I separated them with a single layer of ash. Her is the glued up primary log. Attachment: P1020471 (Large).JPG Here's a close-up of the layers. Attachment: P1020472 (Large).JPG Log from a different angle. Attachment: P1020473 (Large).JPG The next step, after planing the faces clean, was to cut the log into enough pieces to create another log, glued up that would equal the needed minimum length to purf one side of the guitar. I suppose I could piece it up, but no need to. Here are the pieces laid out, awaiting the glue. Attachment: P1020517 (Large).JPG Here is the gluing of the log - Not the best method. It needs better support, but this worked, as a first time. I need to make a clamping system to get better glue joints. Attachment: P1020518 (Large).JPG Here is the glued up log. You can see the slight bow in it, because it was not well supported during glue-up. It probably won't make a big difference, but it would make things easier, if it was straight. Attachment: P1020520 (Large).JPG Here is a close-up of the glued up log. Attachment: P1020521 (Large).JPG Continued in next post. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
The next step was to cut into strips. I did this one without gluing a face on it. It seemed to work. Might have been safer if I'd glued a face on one side first. Attachment: P1020524 (Large).JPG I glued ash on each side of the strip, and then cut that into strips for purfling. Here is a strip with one side glued on. One more bordering strip to go. Attachment: P1020530 (Large).JPG After gluing the side pieces on, I cut into purfling strips. Here is one cut-up batch, from one strip. Attachment: P1020868 (Large).JPG Closer look at same. Attachment: P1020869 (Large).JPG I have a piece here at my office that I did a few quick FP sessions on, and it looks pretty good under finish. If I can remember to take it home, I'll get a shot of that to give an idea. Making up marquetry like this is time consuming, but it is also fun, and gets the creative juices flowing. This is a shot of what I hope the rosette for #4 will look like. I'm still experimenting, and need to lay up the whole rosette. #4 will be a 640 mm scale, EIR/German Spruce, using, generally, the same plan as my others, which is the 1973 Romanillos plan with changes suggested by Shawn, David, Joshua, and Colin, to mention a few. Attachment: P1020926 (Large).JPG Thanks for looking. |
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| Author: | Allen McFarlen [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
That's excellent Waddy. I really like the look, and you've got me thinking about that stash of longish bits I've been saving for something, but didn't know what. |
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| Author: | Kelby [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
That's really nice work. Would you mind letting me know which cuts you did on a tablesaw, and which on a bandsaw? |
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| Author: | Peter J [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
Great job and nice photos Waddy. It appears that you now have more than enough for quite a few instruments. How do you plan to get it to bend the inner and outer radii of your rosette? Will you have to cut segments or do you think it will make the bends? The reason I'm asking is that I just tried a very similar strip on a rosette I was working on and couldn't get it to make the bend without pulling over itself. I finally had to substitute some layered purfs and herringbone. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
Thanks folks. Peter, it may be tricky, but I figure if wheat will bend, this should too. That strip is just over 2mm wide. If I have a problem, I'll work it out, some way. Isn't the Luthery motto "Adapt and overcome!"?
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| Author: | patmguitars [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
It looks pretty nice, Waddy. Don't forget to let us see how it comes out when installed. Good show! Pat |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
Kelby wrote: That's really nice work. Would you mind letting me know which cuts you did on a tablesaw, and which on a bandsaw? Kelby, sorry, I missed your question. I cut them all on a band saw. 10" Craftsman with a 1/4" blade. The blade I used was a 12 - 14 tooth bi-metal blade. It cuts pretty clean, and leaves a fairly smooth surface. I also have some 14 - 18 tooth bimetal blades that cut even finer. |
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| Author: | Ed Haney [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
WaddyThomson wrote: Kelby wrote: That's really nice work. Would you mind letting me know which cuts you did on a tablesaw, and which on a bandsaw? Kelby, sorry, I missed your question. I cut them all on a band saw. 10" Craftsman with a 1/4" blade. The blade I used was a 12 - 14 tooth bi-metal blade. It cuts pretty clean, and leaves a fairly smooth surface. I also have some 14 - 18 tooth bimetal blades that cut even finer. Waddy, A 1/4" thick table saw blade, right? Will an 1/8" or 3/16" thick blade not work and reduce waste? Obviously I need to learn something here. Ed |
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| Author: | StevenWheeler [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
Nice work there Waddy. I find the trim takes more time than anything when building, but it is worth the time in the end. Ed, Band saw with a 1/4" blade, only about .025" kerf on those. Steve |
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| Author: | Ed Haney [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
StevenWheeler wrote: Nice work there Waddy. I find the trim takes more time than anything when building, but it is worth the time in the end. Ed, Band saw with a 1/4" blade, only about .025" kerf on those. Steve Oh, OK. Thanks Steve. |
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| Author: | Joe Sustaire [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
You're amazing Waddy, that perf is great and one heck of a rosette you've got lined out! Joe |
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| Author: | Stephen Boone [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
Thanks for sharing that Waddy! Now you have ME thinking! or is it copying? |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
NO! It isn't copying, in my opinion. It's certainly not original to me. The first, in person, place I saw it was on David LaPlante's guitar, but I have seen pictures of other guitars with this type of purfling. |
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| Author: | Stephen Boone [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
I'm with you Waddy! We all take ideas from those who came before us. We still have to do the work! I love what you have done here and I am going to go for it for sure. |
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| Author: | Mike Lindstrom [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
Wow! That is super cool. Thanks for sharing. Mike |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
Excellent post Waddy bro and I am wondering if this should be moved, once everyone has seen it, to the toots section for future reference? |
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| Author: | John A [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
Waddy, Thanks for these instructions !! I was wondering what I will do for my purf and that is exactly the pattern I wanted, but did not know how to do ? I may cut my blocks in a slant and get a slight herring bone pattern. What size were the veneers ? Where do you get veneer ? Woodcraft only seems to have bags of 8 or so at 36 inch length but not so much variety. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
Waddy...thats just really nice craftsmanship...congrats! Thanks for posting. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
John, that's the beauty of the process! You can make it any way you want. If you decide to use the slanted version, you'll cut on the bias, like you do for wheat, then glue the bias cut blocks into a long stick, then cut the slices, cut into strips and glue a pair together. One thing I did learn is that you can't bend this stuff with a purfling strip glued to both sides. It works best with the purfling glued to the outside of the bend. At least I found that to be true for the rosette. The broader bends of the guitar sides may not be as limiting, but the waist could be a challenge. If you have a strip on the inside, it wants to buckle in a tight bend. |
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| Author: | John A [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
WaddyThomson wrote: John, that's the beauty of the process! You can make it any way you want. If you decide to use the slanted version, you'll cut on the bias, like you do for wheat, then glue the bias cut blocks into a long stick, then cut the slices, cut into strips and glue a pair together. One thing I did learn is that you can't bend this stuff with a purfling strip glued to both sides. It works best with the purfling glued to the outside of the bend. At least I found that to be true for the rosette. The broader bends of the guitar sides may not be as limiting, but the waist could be a challenge. If you have a strip on the inside, it wants to buckle in a tight bend. So do you suggest I skip this step (below) and only glue the lighter wood on only one side ? Quote: I glued ash on each side of the strip, and then cut that into strips for purfling.
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
That would be my suggestion, at this juncture. I may try bending a piece with both sides bound, for going around the top, but when I was doing it for the rosette, thi inside piece couldn't compress enough for the tight bend, so it would separate and kink. It works fine when the strip is glued to the outside of the bend. I got breakage when I tried it with the strip glued to the inside of the bend. When I was doing wheat, it bent fine with no outside boarder, but it had the inside strip to help keep things together. I forgot you answer your veneer question. I buy most of my veneer from www.constantines.com, but I've heard good things about www.theveneerstore.com too. The thin black and white veneer, I buy from LMII. It's expensive, but it's really nice. The thick, or standard thickness black, I've been getting at Constantines. |
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| Author: | John A [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
so are all your veneers .040 inch and the ash is .020 inch ? |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
Thanks, Filippo! I appreciate that. I'm just glad to be able to contribute, since I'm such a beginner. John, most of the stuff I get is about 0.6mm +/- .03 mm. What's that about .023 to .025"? The thin stuff from LMII is .3 mm, which is pretty thin, but it makes a great thin line. |
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| Author: | John A [ Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Decorative Purfling for Build's 4 & 5 |
Waddy - thanks for the help !! last question though - sorry I hate to be dense... but... so if the wood is .6mm, then in your pictures the ash is .6 mm (assuming approx) then are all pieces of the different woods .6 ? so you have ash at .6, which is thinner than all the colored sections ? are the colored sections doubled or tripled to make them thicker ? see below my written example - so you have "ash, walnut, walnut, ash, rosewood, rosewood, ash, white oak, white oak, ash, wenge, wenge, ash" ? Thanks again you have been a great help !! John |
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