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Super glue for kerfed lining
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25570		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  sprouseod [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Super glue for kerfed lining
Maybe this have been done before but i can not find any info when searching. Can anyone think of a reason structurally why you could not use CA for kerfed lining installation?

As always,

Thanks
Richard
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Super glue for kerfed lining
if you get it on the glueing surface for the top or back you reduce the ability of hide or PVA type glues to bond that surface. Thin CA will infiltrate fairly deeply into that surface due to it being end grain so you must leave enough proud to be able ro sand out to non-infiltrated wood. All that said guitars have been built with nothing but CA. Frankly I can see no advantage to using CA to glue linings to the rim. Only more work cleaning up.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Super glue for kerfed lining
To glue linings I tend to prefer glues with more open time than even thick CA…
No reason why it wouldn't work. But good luck installing the linings, or maybe you're thinking of installing them in segments?
Author:  sprouseod [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Super glue for kerfed lining
This is how I did it and it seemed to work well
I used reversed linings and prebent them by wetting then clamping to the outside of the rims with the front of the lining facing the rims, you can do all four sides at once. I left that over night to dry. Before I took the clamps off I took a small paint brush and applied accelerator to the area where the lining would be glued. I took the clamps off and moved the linings from outside to the inside of the rims and clamped them in place. I trimmed the ends and made relief cuts where needed in order for the lining sit properly above the rims.
From the inside I applied thin CA at the base of the lining for all four sets so that it wicks between the lining and the rim. I removed the clamps and did the same at the top of the linings trying to stay at the seam between the back side of the lining and the rim so that enough CA wicks from above as well as below.

This is similar t how I glue binding in place

This was the first time I tried it and it seemed to go faster and with less clean up for me the my previous method with titebond. It allowed me to glue all four linings at the same time

Richard
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Super glue for kerfed lining
Interesting method.
The only thing to note is that the accelerator weakens the CA a bit, but it shouldn't matter for the linings.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Super glue for kerfed lining
If flooding a side set, of say BRW, with CA doesn't have any impact on the bonding of other glues to the surface, why would it matter on linings?
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Super glue for kerfed lining
Interesting you already had a process that had worked but yet you ask if there was any structural reason why not too!????? Scratching my head???? This makes the point of the question sound like a search for debate. That’s Ok.

Well mechanically CA will hold fine. What I mentioned referred to the possible pitfall of getting CA on a surface you may want to use reversible glue for the top and back to aid repair work if needed in the future. My thoughts on clean up had to do with the fact that thin CA will run and infiltrate the wood and need sanded to clear wood remove any discoloration. As far as clean up of hide or PVA that takes 2 min removing the squeeze-out 15m after application and you’re done with no discoloration of the wood surface where it may have contacted.

I still see no advantage personally. That said it will work
Author:  sprouseod [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Super glue for kerfed lining
Laurent Brondel wrote:
Interesting method.
The only thing to note is that the accelerator weakens the CA a bit, but it shouldn't matter for the linings.


True, also I don't know that the accelerator is needed for this application, you would probably get the same results without. I do it this way for binding so that the spruce is not stained by the CA

Richard
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Super glue for kerfed lining
sprouseod wrote:
I do it this way for binding so that the spruce is not stained by the CA

IMHO it's best to seal the end grain with shellac in this application.
Author:  sprouseod [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Super glue for kerfed lining
Michael Dale Payne wrote:
Interesting you already had a process that had worked but yet you ask if there was any structural reason why not too!????? Scratching my head???? This makes the point of the question sound like a search for debate. That’s Ok.


Hi Michael, definitely not looking to debate anyone about this [uncle] This was kind of experiment out of necessity. As for the reason for the question after the fact, I have learned (sometimes the hard way) even though something may seem to work, there is a very good reason not to do it that I might not be aware of.
I just didn't want to be three builds down the road and someone say "OMG you used WHAT to glue your linings with."

As for why I did it this way, I bought reversed kerfed lining not realizing you could not break it into small pieces to install w/o it looking bad. Also in a previous post/question a week or two ago, I mentioned I took my rims down too far and needed to use the kerfed lining to get more height for the sides. This seemed like an easy way to get the height just right and glue it in place without taking lining back off to apply the glue. It just seemed to be pretty easy and looked as good or better than previous attempts.


Thanks
Richard
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Super glue for kerfed lining
WaddyThomson wrote:
If flooding a side set, of say BRW, with CA doesn't have any impact on the bonding of other glues to the surface, why would it matter on linings?


When flooding backs and sides you typicall sand off the CA that is on the flat surfaces and the end grain where the infiltration can happen is typically trimed away when you shape the back or sides. When using CA to pore fill the joints are already made. HHG,PVA, Fish glue (most all glues) all have issues bonding where another glue typ glue exist. To get the best possible joint bond you want wood to glue contact.
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