Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Brand new member

First off, Welcome to the OLF Arnie.

There are no stupid questions, and my guess is your question will leave a few folks who have built a guitar or two going "now why didn't I think of that?"

Yes, it's a good idea to put a coat or two of shellac over the top face, even before putting the rosette in. You can always add a bit more here or there as the shellac will burn into each layer. And it will offer minor protection from "incidents".

You don't want to do the backside of the top though.

I'm new to, welcome EOArnie.

Just a quick question to the other experienced ones as well. In my reading on the subject of rosettes it has been recommended to use CA to seal the edge so there is no bleeding. Would you still do this? The only reason i ask is that if a person does seal the top they may forget to CA the freshly cut rosette hole.

Just an inquiry. So many people starting at the same time as me will be very exciting to see other builds as i do mine. My wood is somewhere on the ocean right now... Can't wait.

sealing the rosette channel with super glue is a very bad idea and my guess is that the advice was to seal the rosette channel with shellac BEFORE using super glue

I doubt you'll prevent real dings and dents with just shellac. For that you just need to keep your bench clean. I have a cheap brush from Harbor Freight just for that purpose. I leave it hanging near the bench and use it a lot.

Definitely use shellac to seal things up before you use superglue because otherwise it'll soak in and stain as others have pointed out.

I think shellac can also help before you rout out binding/purfling to minimize chipout for a clean cut. I've never had problems in this regard with spruce, but I was kicking myself when I got done routing soundhole purfling channels on a cedar top recently.

Author:	EOArnie [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
Hello. I'm brand new to this forum, and thought I'd start by asking what many will consider a stupid question. When working on the top of an acoustic, would it be a horrible idea to start off the process by putting a coat of shellac on to protect it a little from the this-and-that while forming the bracing, sound hole, etc. I'm laying it on a carpet subflooring piece devoted to minimizing the dings that may happen when in direct contact with my bench.

Author:	Rod True [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
First off, Welcome to the OLF Arnie. There are no stupid questions, and my guess is your question will leave a few folks who have built a guitar or two going "now why didn't I think of that?" Yes, it's a good idea to put a coat or two of shellac over the top face, even before putting the rosette in. You can always add a bit more here or there as the shellac will burn into each layer. And it will offer minor protection from "incidents".

Author:	Mike Lindstrom [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
It helps to keep it clean too. You don't want to do the backside of the top though. I think that would make it hard to glue your braces in.

Author:	EOArnie [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
Rod True wrote: First off, Welcome to the OLF Arnie. There are no stupid questions, and my guess is your question will leave a few folks who have built a guitar or two going "now why didn't I think of that?" Yes, it's a good idea to put a coat or two of shellac over the top face, even before putting the rosette in. You can always add a bit more here or there as the shellac will burn into each layer. And it will offer minor protection from "incidents". Thanks for the welcome. Specifically, I was wondering if there were any off-color issues using shellac. I was planning on cleaning off the majority of the shellac later using alcohol. Any red flags here? Thanks again. I've been a lurker for a while now, and just decided today to dive in.

Author:	EOArnie [ Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
Mike Lindstrom wrote: You don't want to do the backside of the top though. Yep. Just the top. Thanks Mike.

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Author:	Rod True [ Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
I use shellac as my seal coats before finishing. You can leave the initial coats alone, apart from where you scrape or sand after bindings and rosette. When you get to the finishing stage, you can scuff sand the remaining shellac and the new shellac will just burn into the old stuff. Make sure you have a couple of seal coats and that they are of the same general thickness before you start with your finishing coats. Also, make sure you use the same shellac (blonde, garnet etc...) each time you seal the top. If you want to remove it, you can use alcohol or just sand it off. The alcohol will be somewhat messy and can get down in the soundhole and can take a fair amount of time. Sanding the remaining shellac off isn't to bad with 120 no-load paper.

Author:	woodsworth [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
I'm new to, welcome EOArnie. Just a quick question to the other experienced ones as well. In my reading on the subject of rosettes it has been recommended to use CA to seal the edge so there is no bleeding. Would you still do this? The only reason i ask is that if a person does seal the top they may forget to CA the freshly cut rosette hole. Just an inquiry. So many people starting at the same time as me will be very exciting to see other builds as i do mine. My wood is somewhere on the ocean right now... Can't wait.

Author:	Hesh [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
Welcome to the OLF EOArnie!

Author:	Mattia Valente [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
woodsworth wrote: I'm new to, welcome EOArnie. Just a quick question to the other experienced ones as well. In my reading on the subject of rosettes it has been recommended to use CA to seal the edge so there is no bleeding. Would you still do this? The only reason i ask is that if a person does seal the top they may forget to CA the freshly cut rosette hole. Just an inquiry. So many people starting at the same time as me will be very exciting to see other builds as i do mine. My wood is somewhere on the ocean right now... Can't wait. DO NOT seal the rosette cavity with CA, as it will soak in and discolor, is my (limited) experience. When gluing binding and rosettes with CA, I apply a wash coat of shellac to each channel and surrounding area and then glue in, precisely to avoid the CA getting everywhere.

Author:	WudWerkr [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
Welcome to OLF , and dont worrie about asking Dumb Questions here , Ive already asked most of them and they havent run me off yet

Author:	Mike Mahar [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:41 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
As the others have said, their is no such thing as a dumb question. (Actually, "How far apart are the mile markers?" is pretty close) Your question is very far from a dumb one. It is important, however, to read the answers carefully. For example, sealing the rosette channel with super glue is a very bad idea and my guess is that the advice was to seal the rosette channel with shellac BEFORE using super glue. It is very easy to get things backwards sometimes. Putting a seal coat of shellac on is a very good idea. I would sand it off rather than wash it off with alcohol.

Author:	letseatpaste [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
I doubt you'll prevent real dings and dents with just shellac. For that you just need to keep your bench clean. I have a cheap brush from Harbor Freight just for that purpose. I leave it hanging near the bench and use it a lot. Definitely use shellac to seal things up before you use superglue because otherwise it'll soak in and stain as others have pointed out. I think shellac can also help before you rout out binding/purfling to minimize chipout for a clean cut. I've never had problems in this regard with spruce, but I was kicking myself when I got done routing soundhole purfling channels on a cedar top recently.

Author:	woodsworth [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
Quote: sealing the rosette channel with super glue is a very bad idea and my guess is that the advice was to seal the rosette channel with shellac BEFORE using super glue Ah thanks so much for that!! I looked and looked for where i read that but couldn't find it, so i'm glad someone clarified that. You know when you begin these things you read so much that it becomes impossible to keep it all in. I'm beginning to think that it is best to start and read specifically about what you are doing at the time to the facts don't get all jumbled up. Anyhow thanks very much

Author:	EOArnie [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brand new member - start off with a noob question.
letseatpaste wrote: I doubt you'll prevent real dings and dents with just shellac. For that you just need to keep your bench clean. I have a cheap brush from Harbor Freight just for that purpose. I leave it hanging near the bench and use it a lot. Definitely use shellac to seal things up before you use superglue because otherwise it'll soak in and stain as others have pointed out. I think shellac can also help before you rout out binding/purfling to minimize chipout for a clean cut. I've never had problems in this regard with spruce, but I was kicking myself when I got done routing soundhole purfling channels on a cedar top recently. Great advice, and certainly something I wasn't thinking about until you mentioned it. As to keeping my bench clean, I definitely will do my best with a combo of air hose and a horsehair brush, but you know how those little grenades can creep in and frustrate.

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