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Rosettes and double side tape
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25345		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  windsurfer [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Rosettes and double side tape
I typically mount my rosettes on a backer using double side tape while routing them to shape.

Having just messed up the same rosette twice because of problems with this mounting method, I am curious what methods others use.

The tape I use is a double-side fabric based carpet tape. I try to assure good adhesion by pressing them into the adhesive using a J-roller. The problems I am having is that I either end up breaking the rosette while removing it from the tape because it is stuck down too well (first failure I had with this rosette) or it does not stick down well enough and moves while I am routing (second failure I had with this rosette).

I also tape soundboards to a backer when installing the rosette and cutting the soundhole. Removing the soundboard after this operation cam also be a bit stressful and frequently pulls some wood fibers out of the back of the soundboard.

am I using the wrong tape ?
is there a better mounting method ?

thanks,

-jd
Author:  wbergman [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosettes and double side tape
One thing you could do is glue them face down a thin backer. Then flip that and install that in the top and run the whole thing through the drum sander to remove the backer. Maybe someone could comment on that????
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosettes and double side tape
On the rosettes I flood with some Naptha which releases the rosette from the double stick tape very easily.

For soundboards I leave some tabs on the cutout outside of the outline near the waist and attach it to the backer board with two screws. Unscrew when done and then cut off the tabs.
Author:  Tim L [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosettes and double side tape
I use liquid hide glue, (maybe the only thing I would use it for). Bonds firmly to a backer board and floats off easily when put in a pan of warm water. Also works well when cutting pearl. Thanks to Adam Rose at SCGC for sharing this with me, made my life a lot easier and safer.

Tim
Author:  Tim L [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosettes and double side tape
I use liquid hide glue, (maybe the only thing I would use it for). Bonds firmly to a backer board and floats off easily when put in a pan of warm water. Also works well when cutting pearl. Thanks to Adam Rose at SCGC for sharing this with me, made my life a lot easier and safer.

Tim
Author:  Flori F. [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosettes and double side tape
wbergman wrote:
One thing you could do is glue them face down a thin backer. Then flip that and install that in the top and run the whole thing through the drum sander to remove the backer. Maybe someone could comment on that????

Not sure it'll work with every material. But yes, you can certainly glue your rosette to a piece of veneer and then flip it for the install. Worked just fine for me on this.
Author:  windsurfer [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosettes and double side tape
Tim L wrote:
I use liquid hide glue, (maybe the only thing I would use it for). Bonds firmly to a backer board and floats off easily when put in a pan of warm water. Also works well when cutting pearl. Thanks to Adam Rose at SCGC for sharing this with me, made my life a lot easier and safer.

Tim


I assemble with HHG and/or CA, so as long as I wait until it is fully cured, it should be able to stand up to warm water for a while.

How long does the wet rosette need to dry/stabilize after soaking off before installing in the soundboard ? The Rosette is pretty thin, so it should dry quickly, but it would be a bummer if it shrank and left gaps after being installed.

-jd
Author:  bluescreek [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosettes and double side tape
When I do a wooden rosette I will glue that to a thin wooden backer about .020 , then I will thin the wooded rosette to .060 when I am finished and ready to install . Some , if they are simple I will just inlay right into the top.
Author:  Tim L [ Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosettes and double side tape
Quote:
How long does the wet rosette need to dry/stabilize after soaking off


I throw the tiles on top of the dehumidifier for the better part of the week. Like you say JD, the rosette is thin. I rough cut mine to be close to .070. I use the glue sparingly and only in small spots. The tiles float off in hot water in about 5 mins. The more glue the longer it takes. Is there swelling? The tiles appear to be dry after 1 day. I know the tiles are all cut the same and they go into the channel perfectly, no gap, no overlay. Everything swells back up when I glue them in place with LMI white glue, same should happen with HHG. More water in the glue than is left in the wodden tiles.
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosettes and double side tape
What I do is glues a sheet of paper in between the backer board and the rosette, using plane old titebond. Once you are done start lifting gently with a chisel. You will see the sheet of paper easily tears itself appart leaving your rosette undamaged.

You do have to sand away the remaining paper glued on the back of the rosette though...

Hope this helps!
Author:  windsurfer [ Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosettes and double side tape
This place is awesome.

Using naptha to unstick the adhesive works great, the rosette lifts right off.

No doubt the liquid hide glue and warm water trick will work too, but I already have naptha so that saves me a trip to the hardware store.

-jd
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rosettes and double side tape
JD,
Glad that worked for ya [:Y:]
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