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Neck profiles needed
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Author:  Hank Mauel [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Neck profiles needed
Hi gang...
I need neck profiles for a Martin D-18 Authentic.
I'm building a guitar for a worship pastor who has serious wrist/shoulder/hand issues. While discussing neck shapes, he mentioned that he had played a D-18 Authentic and the neck shape was just perfect. He played for several hours without any immediate or subsequent discomfort.

So...do any of you folks have a D-18 Authentic that we can get profiles from, have a set of profiles or knows someone that fits either of those criteria?

Already checked with Tracy at Luthier Suppliers and they think their 1930's D-18 is not the same as Martin's current D-18 Authentic model since all the 30's neck were hand carved and the new stuff is cnc'd.

Meanwhile, Happy New year to all the OLF'ers.
Author:  Mark Maquillan [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Hank, I have a neck like that. I should be able to get the profiles for you. I like it very much.

PM me and see what we can do.

Mark
Author:  Tom West [ Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Hank: You might also try asking at the UMGF.
Author:  Hank Mauel [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Thanks, guys!
PM on it's way and thanks for the Martin forum...forgot about those folks.
Author:  sanaka [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Quote:
UMGF

+1

There's a post there somewhere with a whole bunch of Martin neck profiles, broken out at different frets and everything.
Author:  Hank Mauel [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
sanaka wrote:
Quote:
UMGF

+1

There's a post there somewhere with a whole bunch of Martin neck profiles, broken out at different frets and everything.


I had a page of those, but they are drawn way oversize, and not to any scale that I can discern, and my best efforts to "shrink" them down to actual size (on xerox) failed. If I got it reduced to give the 1 3/4 nut size, the depth did not come out to the dimension provided. If I get the depth correct, the nut is incorrect. So, I'm asking for direct contour readings from a real neck.
Also, just tried to register at the UMGF..I can log in but no where that I can see does it allow me to make a Post. The FAQ section takes me to the Yuku site which tells me nothing about getting access to UMGF. I log in, my name shows at the bottom as being logged on with everyone else (like here) but I can't do a thing to ask the question.
Very strange.
Oh well, it's past the official AARP bedtime so...Good Night.
Author:  sanaka [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Hey Hank, too bad those neck sections are out of scale :cry: Hope someone else can help.

As for the UMGF registration delay, yah, it's like that. I guess a real person reviews every submission as a spam deterrent. It was like a week and a half for me before I could post there. I emailed the admin and that seemed to grease the wheels. Cool forum there for sure though.

Peace,
Sanaka
Author:  woody b [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
I've played 2 D18A's and the necks weren't the same. One was alot more "V" shaped than the other.
Author:  Dave Stewart [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Hank, I've used those profile pics & Turbocad to create patterns for a variety of shapes. (Modified V first fret shown)
Attachment:
neck profile.jpg

I copy/paste the image into cad. In a new layer, I draw a rectangle to the known dimensions (1 3/4" by .850" thick or whatever) and then stretch the image 'till it just fits the rectangle. Do a line drawing following the perimeter of the profile & you have a pattern you can print full size & glue to plywood, carefully cut out and use as a template when carving. Hope this helps.
Author:  Hank Mauel [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
woody b wrote:
I've played 2 D18A's and the necks weren't the same. One was alot more "V" shaped than the other.


I was hoping against just such a situation as that. gaah
Just when you expect that Martin was going to be "cnc consistant" they do this.
Well, I plan to carve a test neck out of some laminated basswood, including a radiused fingerboard face, and send it to the customer for a test drive. It won't have strings of course, but he can grasp it and do chord formations to see how it feels and if it creates problems. He can mark on the basswood any areas he wants to change and I can go from there.
And last resort, since I use a bolt on neck, if he does experience problems down the line we can make a new neck and replace fairly easily.

Thanks for the heads-up on the varied neck shape.
Author:  Hank Mauel [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Todd Stock wrote:
Luthier Suppliers has a template for a 1935 D-18, which may be reasonably close to the vintage profile used for the D-18A. I agree with the D-18A necks being a bit variable - not sure if Martin is using a core CNC'd neck, then working to finished shape, but I suspect more hand work on the guitar than Golden Era, etc.



Thanks, Todd.
I already talked with Tracy about that and he expressed the concern over just how much different their template might be, since it came off a singular mid-30's D-18, than the current D-18A.
May turn out that I get one anyway as a guide for this neck and for future should someone want that feel.
Author:  Hank Mauel [ Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Dave Stewart wrote:
Hank, I've used those profile pics & Turbocad to create patterns for a variety of shapes. (Modified V first fret shown)
Attachment:
neck profile.jpg

I copy/paste the image into cad. In a new layer, I draw a rectangle to the known dimensions (1 3/4" by .850" thick or whatever) and then stretch the image 'till it just fits the rectangle. Do a line drawing following the perimeter of the profile & you have a pattern you can print full size & glue to plywood, carefully cut out and use as a template when carving. Hope this helps.



Yes, I was afraid somebody would say "cad". laughing6-hehe
Heck, with my "learning curve" (I don't retrain well at this age) I could probably carve a dozen necks before I could even open the cad program, much less draw something in it. [headinwall]
Thanks for your "optimism", Dave, but I'd better stay with "hands-on" activities that I can see and touch. [uncle]
Author:  woody b [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Hank, I had a client a couple thousand miles away who wanted a neck shaped (on a dread) like a particular Classical he had. I couldn't find one locally to make a template. He made me a template off of his from this article on the 13th fret. http://www.13thfret.com/articles/blanchard/blanchard1.html If your client is "handy" he may be able to make you a template.
Author:  Hank Mauel [ Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
woody b wrote:
Hank, I had a client a couple thousand miles away who wanted a neck shaped (on a dread) like a particular Classical he had. I couldn't find one locally to make a template. He made me a template off of his from this article on the 13th fret. http://www.13thfret.com/articles/blanchard/blanchard1.html If your client is "handy" he may be able to make you a template.



Thanks, Woody.

The client doesn't have access to the D18A. He had played one earlier this year...I'll guess at a music store...and said it caused no pain or discomfort in his left wrist/hand/arm, hence the search for a neck profile.
I am aware of Mark's method of taking profiles and I have used that technique before. I have also tried to find a D18A somewhere nearby but have not found any stores that have one. I'd happily drive to anyone that has a D18A within the greater Sacramento area, even the S.F. Bay Area if they would allow me to take the profile of their neck.
No guitars will be harmed in this undertaking! ;) Had to put in the "full disclosure".
Author:  Flippo [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Hey Hank, I think the old Martins were hand carved and the variations of the neck profile could be endless. This is a little more work, but you could build a guitar, keep the neck unfinished, and let the pastor play it. If he’s unhappy, keep carving away until he likes it – then finish the neck. That would truly be a custom neck job. Later, Tony
Author:  Hank Mauel [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Flippo wrote:
Hey Hank, I think the old Martins were hand carved and the variations of the neck profile could be endless. This is a little more work, but you could build a guitar, keep the neck unfinished, and let the pastor play it. If he’s unhappy, keep carving away until he likes it – then finish the neck. That would truly be a custom neck job. Later, Tony


Yes, hand craftsmanship did lean towards variations in the necks. The pastor had played a new D18A and liked that "specific" neck on that instrument. Hoping that Martin was cnc'ing the new stuff has led me to input from folks who have played more than one of the new D18A's and their input that the necks DID feel different from one guitar to another. So maybe the basic neck is cnc'd, then finished off by hand, bringing back good old variability.
So, what I'm going to start with is some profiles I've received, build up a blank neck from basswood (including the appropriate thickness and radius for a fingerboard) and carve it to the "fat side" of the average profile. I'll send it to the pastor and let him test fondle it for a while. He can mark up the basswood with pencil in the areas he feels need to come down a bit (hopefully we won't have to add wood gaah ) and I'll make the changes and send it back. If it feels good then, we'll go to mahogany. The last resort will be if the finished, strung up playable neck doesn't feel good after some playing time, I'll bring it back, remove, correct, refinish and re-assemble (ah, the joy of a bolt on neck system [:Y:] ) and go forward from there.
We aim to please. [:Y:]
Author:  Mark Maquillan [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Hank, the templates I sent you were a little rough. If I would have waited a day I would have used the tutorial pasted above. Hope it helps though.

Mark
Author:  Hank Mauel [ Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck profiles needed
Mark Maquillan wrote:
Hank, the templates I sent you were a little rough. If I would have waited a day I would have used the tutorial pasted above. Hope it helps though.

Mark


Got them at the P.O. Box yesterday. They will give me a start and I can go from there. Will compare them to others I can obtain to see just how much variation occurs in those particular necks.

Thanks!
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