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| Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25097 |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut |
Ever get an idea in your head that runs around in there like an ADHD kid? This whole guitar is a string of those ideas. Sometime ago I got it in my head that it would be cool to do a nylon string guitar with a double cutaway like an ES335. So, to see what that would be like I drew the outline, starting with a Fleta plantilla, and prepared a plywood cutout. I liked it. I thought that a Selmer headstock and “D” shape sound hole (reduced in size from Selmer) would go well with it. And then some more ADHD ideas: a wedge body, vertical adjustable neck, radius fingerboard, braided copper wire rosette and tie block inlay, and some Viola da Gamba inlay lifted from a Richard Meares instrument. Oh, yeah, and a bracing scheme inspired by Vicente Arias. Green Ash body; the sides were bent cold by hand, just like I did with the Panormo copy. Too easy! WRC top is from salvaged lumber. I ran out of the gold fretwire that I was using and had to skip the last fret till I get new wire. The bindings are Cherry ebonized with ferrous acetate-I won’t be doing that again! To hard to keep the edges clean. The strings have only been on a week and its opening up nicely. The sound is nice and crisp, and the bass is very resonant. I will freely admit that I was not after a sonic goal with this guitar; this one was primarily a technical and aesthetic challenge. I am still getting to know its sound, but I do like it. It’s nice to have easy access to almost the entire fingerboard, not that I can exploit it with my playing! Here's the plywood cutout that I lived with prior to committing myself to the project. It is now painted green and is used for air guitar by my daughter. |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut |
Finished guitar. I have this guitar strung, the Panormo (which I will post about shortly), and my Torres "copy" all strung with the same brand and age of strings, providing a wonderful opportunity to compare the guitars. Each has its own voice, and I'm really starting to like this one! I look forward to setting up a sound sample because words are not up to the task. I thought that my Torres had a great sound, but this one, especially the bass, is more precise, richer, crisper. I love the bass on this guitar! It may be louder, too. Yesterday I was playing it in the kitchen and my wife, in another room, was complaining that it was too loud, and I was not pushing it. I am anxious to hear it played by a good musician. |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut |
More details... |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut |
Wait, what's that squiggly line at the lower bout of the back? That would be this. Lifted from a Richard Meares Viola da Gamba. I was perfectly happy with how the back looked up to this point. I was cruising looking for photos of viols as I'm building one for my wife, and thought, "Hey, that would look great on the back of the guitar..." What is it that the Borg say "Resistance is futile". It is. Just like an ADHD kid running around-you can only ignore it for so long. |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut |
The body is Manzer style wedge shape. 1/2" off of the bass side, 1/2 extra on the treble. 1" difference over all. Some inner details, too. Vicente Arias bracing scheme. The 7 fans are 4mm wide by 4.5mm tall. There are two transverse braces, one above and one below the bridge position. According to the info that I go this from, the soundboard is little over 1mm thick. I was reminded of a something Jose Romanillos said, "It takes a lot of guts to build a true Spanish guitar" (something like that...) I maybe didn't have the guts on this build, but I didn't really have trustworthy data either. I thinned the transverse braces till I got the top compliance that I was after. Oh, yeah. As the fingerboard was vertically adjusting, that meant the FB extension had to be free of the upper bout. So, in order to keep the neck/string/bridge alignment correct, I had to tilt the soundboard down around the neck. As a classical guitar normally has only the lower bout domed, and that dome is about r=15', I simply continued that curve through the upper bout and tilted the whole soundboard, keeping the bridge at a fixed point. Of course, you realize that this meant making a whole new solara that would accommodate this. |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut |
I took some strand wire, from an old extension cord that was otherwise toast. Separated the main wires, then untwisted it so that they are now parallel. Clamp the three sets of strands to a work table, then braid it carefully so that the strands stay untwisted and flat. At least as much as possible. Press the braid flat, you may need to hammer it. The rosette channel is not very deep, so you can't leave it "fat" Once the channel is prepared, apply a wash of shellac to keep the resin from wicking up the grain lines. This is a significant issue so attend to it. I also glue in some fine border lines to help. Apply some 5 minute epoxy to the bottom of the rosette channel and lay in your strand. Be very careful about how it takes the corners, it likes to squish up and loose the nice braid look. Don't loose any sleep over it-I feel that a certain organic look helps as it contrasts nicely with the precision of other parts of the work. Place a plate like a piece of MDF over top of the strand and clamp it down in some way to keep it from being too "fat". This is just to keep the braid where you want it. You may need to pin it in place while the glue sets. Prepare some epoxy like WEST or equivalent. Low viscosity is important. You can lower viscosity by preheating it as well. Add some pigment, I used resin pigment because the black is very black. Remove the clamping plate and pour it into the channel. Pour it in slowly, letting it flow in between the strands. Some heat may be needed to lower the viscosity. Continue till the flooding is complete. Once the resin is thoroughly set, clean it up and sand it flush to the soundboard. Care is required at this stage because the wire is hard and the wood will sand faster. Also, the fine wire is fragile and can be ripped out of the braid, especially if you work it hard and get it hot enough to weaken the epoxy bond. The "D" hole is routed one half at a time. Sorry, I don't have a photo of the in between stage, but this is how it looks flooded with the epoxy. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut |
Incredible! Thank you Doug for posting such detail of your methods. Awesome looking guitar. I think I'd personally like something like this in a steel string. Hmmmmmm........ |
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| Author: | Robert Dunn [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut |
W T F Man? Cool and strange. mostly cool. what does that one sound like. I have been wanting to use copper in a guitar when I finally build one. I feared it would turn green, even under a finish. Not that wouldn't look cool. |
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| Author: | acousticjazz [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut |
Beautiful and well done, I really like the bridge (matching the rosette) and the look of the head stock. Would love to hear the sound of it, congrats! |
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| Author: | Joe Sustaire [ Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut |
Very cool guitar Douglas!!! I was immediately drawn to the rosette, trying to figure out what that material was. Thanks for letting us in on your process, very organic/creative. Lots of stuff going on in this one, well done! Joe |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut |
Thanks, everyone! I'll be trying to get some sound clips done over the holidays. I'll try and talk a friend into playing for me, he's a far better player than I am, and I'll try and figure how to record and post the clips. For me, it might be a greater challenge than building the guitar! |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Doug Ingram's Arias/Fleta/Selmer Double-cut |
Wow Doug! The river must be frozen and you're finding yourself with some free time to get creative and that one certainly is that. Good for you for having the fortitude to bite into a project like that.  I'm feeling little inadequate as I just ordered an OM plan. It looks like the back is carved? I like the strand wire look. It almost looks like it was hand painted. Good to see you're having fun!Best of the Season, Danny Aka - Cap'n Dan Paddlewheel River Boats(one of the past lives) |
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