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starting first neck set, scary!!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=25040		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ayavner [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  starting first neck set, scary!!
Well, starting to fit the neck to the body and I had some questions, I guess mostly about order of operations, since there are sooo many resources on the web, and they don't always jive. I have just about all of them bookmarked, and they are for the most part easy to follow, but I may be suffering from information overload and overthinking this. :)

First question - I am able to slide the dovetail into the pocket almost all the way down, till I get to a point where I can see the angle of the top to the sides under the fretboard extension (obviously the FB is square to the face of the dovetail, but not to the top of the guitar).

I have pressed it down as far as I am comfortable, so I need to know where my head should be... should I be thinking now about getting the FB flat to the top? Or side-to-side angle? It seems that if I pull on one side so that it is flush to the curve of the body, then there is a gap on the opposite side. I remember reading this is normal as you start the process, but I can see myself quickly chasing my tail here until I have it all whittled down to a nub :D

what happens if i get all the angles right and there is still a gap under the heel on one side?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

adam
Author:  bluescreek [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: starting first neck set, scary!!
I have a vid on you tube that shows the neck setting process with a dovetail neck .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3YJh9OT4mw this will show you the basics. There is no secret . The point is to make the neck angle match so you can have the perfect set up.
Author:  ayavner [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: starting first neck set, scary!!
Thanks John, watching these now (PM sent). Thanks so much for taking the time to produce these! Definitely helps demystify it some

Adam
Author:  TonyKarol [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: starting first neck set, scary!!
your FB is square to the dovetail ???? Most if not all gutiars have some angle here . I am not saying its not possible, but definitely highly irregular .. this will cause all sorts of neck setting issues if the side to top angle at the neck isnt square as well .. see where I am going here ????

the dovetail angle should have been measured off the guitar body with a sliding bevel .. its likely not 90. ususally around 1.5 .... (so that would actually be 91.5)
Author:  ayavner [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: starting first neck set, scary!!
Hi Tony,

No, I guess i didn't explain that very well. The 1.5* angle is there on the body from the top to the side. What I am talking about is the angle between the underside of the fretboard and the face end of the tenon, such that when I put it in the socket and get it close to the body I can see that 1.5* angle there. In other words, I am anticipating somehow transferring that 1.5" angle onto the tenon so that the FB will lay flat on the top. Does that make sense?

thanks,

adam
Author:  Michael Lloyd [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: starting first neck set, scary!!
Hi Adam,

The face of the tenon should not come in contact with the inner face of the dovetail mortis. There should be a small gap the length of the tenon to prevent any problems in setting the joint. A 1/8” gap would be sufficient. Therefore, the angle need not be precise and is not relevant to setting the joint. It will be the contact between the tenon’s angled faces, the angle faces of the dovetail mortis and the neck to body side (front) contact that holds it all together.

One tool that I particular like when setting the neck is the centre line finder from Luthier Supplies which greatly helps to align the side to side angle of the neck.

I’m not sure if you fingerboard is glued to the neck or not. Hopefully not as setting the neck is much easier without it. Laying a straight edge along the neck will give you the up and down angle required for a good fit and alignment. John’s videos demonstrate this very well. I use pins to keep my fingerboard aligned to the neck when fitting. This allows easy removal of the fingerboard for the straight edge use and puts the fingerboard out of the way when fitting of the joint during setup.

Ensure that there is a hollow 1/8" in from the outline of neck heel to the inner angled face of the tenon. This eliminates any interference with the face (body) of the guitar and neck. It also reduces your work during fitting.
Author:  ayavner [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: starting first neck set, scary!!
That makes sense.

The fingerboard is installed, so I have to think about this in relation to the instructions given in those videos. I forgot that the face of the tenon is irrelevant here, so that makes things a bit easier, and its quite likely that I am overthinking things anyway :)
Author:  wolfsearcher [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: starting first neck set, scary!!
dont forget to account for string tension pulling on the top when gettin your angle right
if you want to be extra safe
i suggest takin the neck off and resetting a dowel jointed cheapie ply guitar first
a hairdryer iron and threaded inserts is all you need look for frank fords,
spanish heel an impossible job
it will clear up some questions first
Author:  TonyKarol [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: starting first neck set, scary!!
the only question I have is before you glued the FB on, did you cut the heel at the angle of the top/side area before routing on the male dovetail end ???? If not, you have a lot of effort to get the proper angle on there, and lots more getting the dovetail tight again including fitting the neck to the sides (tight joint from the outside)
Author:  ayavner [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: starting first neck set, scary!!
Alas, looks like you nailed it on the head Tony. Some things you just gotta mess up for yourself, huh? Well, I am sure it will work out, and I know on the next one I will have a context for understanding the instructions I read, so I still count it as a good thing, albeit a huge pain in my rear now.

[headinwall]
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: starting first neck set, scary!!
when setting a neck , you want your line off the fretboard , with frets to be about 1/16" over the bridge . This will under tension set you up with a good set up. Also remember that things move the most in the first few days .
I don't get too excited on a set up until the guitar was strung up a week or so. On the day I set the guitar up I want to get the action close , I will set relief first get the initial set up close and then let the guitar settle in.
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