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Mad Rose under EM6000
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Author:  Ken C [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Mad Rose under EM6000
I buffed out the body of the mad rose OM this morning. The finish is gorgeous! With all the banter about EM6000 looking blue under daylight, I positioned mine in the sun this morning and took a picture at a rather steep angle. To true nitro aficionados, perhaps you can find a blue cast. I too love nitro, but I love even more the ease of working with this finish. Is there a blue cast? Perhaps. I find it very hard to tell. Is it more blue than a nitro finish? More than likely. But without a nitro sprayed guitar sitting next to it, this finish looks extremely clear and glossy.

I'll post more pictures after I have it all assembled and set up.

Ken

Attachment:
MadRose OM Finished Back Small.jpg
Author:  Dave Stewart [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Looks terrific to me too Ken! Nice job! (And well said.)
Author:  Heath Blair [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
looks great ken. what are back strip and binding material? thanks for sharing.
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Looks great Ken! I have finished one in the 6000 in mahogany and didn't see any blue, even on the coco parts but like you say, someone could probably find them. I am finishing a ziricote one now and will look harder to try to see it.

Beautiful back on that guitar.
Author:  Ken C [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Thanks Guys! This is my fourth with EM6000, and I am getting pretty comfortable with it.

Burton, I'll be curious to see how your Zircote turns out. Hopefully you get a stellar result.

Heath, the bindings are curly Koa with a single boxwood line. The back strip is tulipwood banded by boxwood. I'll include some better pictures of the binding when I shoot the finished guitar. The jury is still out on the backstrip. I liked it at the time as I thought it would bring the koa and boxwood together a bit, but seeing the finished guitar now, I think it distracts somewhat from the dark ink lines near the center on the back. But the buyer wanted a lighter backstrip, and I think this works well for what he wanted.

Ken
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
That looks really good! I'm glad to see such encouraging results as I still have most of a gallon of EM6000 left and I plan on using it on the three I have on the bench now. One is Koa so I was wondering how it might do with a darker wood then the walnut I used it on the first time.
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Where does the EM6000 come from?
Author:  Rich Schnee [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Looks great Ken…Madrose and Zircote are my two favorite woods and I too would like to see Burton’s guitar, hint, hint…

I still have to give the EM6000 a try…you guys are getting great results, as least what I have seen on my screen.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Jim Kirby wrote:
Where does the EM6000 come from?


Target Coatings
Author:  Ken C [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Steve - The bindings on the mad rose git are curly koa, which is lighter than the rosewood. Should work great on your koa.

Rich -This one looks even better in person :D
Author:  matthewrust [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Holy crap! Just so you know, when I am finishing a guitar now (and messing with level sanding, etc), your profile photo is my encouragement. And now this one will be too. I love your clean style.
Author:  dmorg57 [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Ken, that is absolutely beautiful,

I am also finishing up the pore filliing part of our program on an EIR J-35 clone. I haven't settled on a finishing schedule, and was hoping you would be kind enough to post yours.

Cheers,

Dave
Author:  Ken C [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Matthew, I generally spend somewhere between a third and a half of the total build time just on sanding, leveling, pore filling, and finishing. When I finally get basic construction done, I say to myself, "Okay, we're a little more than half way there!" laughing6-hehe
Author:  Ken C [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Dave, Happy to, but I need to run right now. I'll post my finishing schedule this afternoon.

Ken

dmorg57 wrote:
Ken, that is absolutely beautiful,

I am also finishing up the pore filliing part of our program on an EIR J-35 clone. I haven't settled on a finishing schedule, and was hoping you would be kind enough to post yours.

Cheers,

Dave
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
I think that by attaching the neck after spraying and buffing might be a big key. Maybe everybody does that, but on my first, I attached the neck, then sprayed. This gave the finish a crevice to build up in (both sides of the heel). That is where I notice the blue cast the most. The thinner the finish, the better.

Mike
Author:  Ken C [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
dmorg57 wrote:
...I haven't settled on a finishing schedule, and was hoping you would be kind enough to post yours.

I learn a little bit more each time I shoot this stuff. Below is the schedule I used on this one and a few comments about what I'd do differently next time:

Day One:
Sprayed 2 thin coats of Target's Amber tinted Ultra Seal Shellac followed by 3 thin coats of EM6000 several hours later. I generally wait 60 minutes between coats.

Day Two:
Shot 3 coats of EM6000

Day Three:
Leveled with 400G wet/dry used dry. I didn't level earlier as I didn't want to sand through the EM6000 into the tinted shellac. Drop filled pin holes

Day Four:
Leveled and sprayed 3 coats of EM6000

Day Five:
Knocked off dust nibs with 600G. Sprayed 3 coats on back, sides, and neck.

Day Six:
Leveled neck with 600G and sprayed 3 more coats on neck.

I generally shot on consecutive days, but did miss a couple of days one time. If I miss a day, I scuff with 600 grit paper prior to spraying.

This approach resulted in 2 shellac coats on the entire guitar plus 9 EM6000 coats on the top, 12 on the back and sides, and 15 on the neck. This is the first time I used shellac as a sealer. I used thinned USL on one guitar and EM8800 on the previous two guitars to seal. I am liking the shellac best so far. The shellac does tint the top. If you don't want it tinted, you can use diluted EM6000. Remember, this stuff is water based so don't go heavy on those seal coats or the grain will go nuts, especially on the top.

I don't get too worried about the rough finish for the first half dozen coats. But I don't want any runs or sags. If I get those, I'll clean up before shooting again, fortunately, I didn't have any on this one. The first time I leveled was after the sixth EM6000 coat. Following that, the finish built very smoothly and really didn't require much leveling, only knocking off dust nibs.

I waited 7 days to buff out. I sanded with 600g, 800g, and 1000g. Polishing was done with a small 4" pneumatic polisher using foam pads and Menzernas pre polish paste folowed by a medium/light cut Menzerna liquid polish.

The finish on the top is very thin. I have noticed under low light, if the light is allowed to reflect a certain way, a few 400g scratch marks are visible below the surface from prior leveling. I have inspected the back and sides very closely and find no similar scratches. So in the future, I need to level the top with 600 grit earlier in the process. I had previously thought 3 coats of finish above 400g leveling was good enough. But the coats I sprayed this time were fairly thin. Going forward, I want to have at least 6 coats above anything leveled with 400 grit or I may switch to 600 grit exclusively for leveling and never use 400 grit once I start spraying.

Ken
Author:  Bailey [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Wow! That is a nice finish. That's "razor shavin" nice!
Kent
Author:  dmorg57 [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Ken,

Many thanks for the schedule. If my results look half as good as yours, I will be pleased. This is my 1st go around w/6000 after trying KTM-9 with less than desireable results. Not really sure if it was the finish or the finisher, but have since purchased a new DevilBiss Finish Line after suffering through a leaky HF gun. At least I can eliminate one of the variables.

Thanks again, and I will report back on the results.

Dave
Author:  Ken C [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Dave,

I am not sure what sort of issues you were having with the KTM-9. I had a real issue with dimples/fisheyes when spraying a prior build with EM6000. This time around I added a small Motorguard disposible filter at the gun and made sure I sprayed at 70 degrees or warmer. The EM6000 laid down like glass. Those filters are cheap insurance, and I won't spray without one going forward.

When you spray the EM6000, set your gun so you have a 4" to 5" spray pattern and adjust the fluid so you get a wet finish but not heavy. I put down a fairly thin coat and overlap passes by about 50%. If the finish looks milky right off the gun, your coats are too thick. If you can get a nice wet coat without it looking milky, you have it close to dialed in.

Good luck!

Ken

dmorg57 wrote:
Ken,

Many thanks for the schedule. If my results look half as good as yours, I will be pleased. This is my 1st go around w/6000 after trying KTM-9 with less than desireable results. Not really sure if it was the finish or the finisher, but have since purchased a new DevilBiss Finish Line after suffering through a leaky HF gun. At least I can eliminate one of the variables.

Thanks again, and I will report back on the results.

Dave
Author:  Mark Groza [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Looks real nice Ken! I like the back on it.Can't wait to see the rest.Great job on the finish too. [:Y:]
Author:  Ken C [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Thanks Mark. I might have time tomorrow to shoot a few pictures. If I do, I'll post some. How you doing? Anything fun going on in your shop next door?

Ken
Author:  Mark Groza [ Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mad Rose under EM6000
Ken C wrote:
Thanks Mark. I might have time tomorrow to shoot a few pictures. If I do, I'll post some. How you doing? Anything fun going on in your shop next door?

Ken
Doing good Ken.Just started a sapwood blackwalnut dread.It should keep me busy for a little while.
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