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Battle of the Rosewoods
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Author:  woody b [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Battle of the Rosewoods
I've been working on a project for a while that I recently completed. It involves 4 otherwise identical guitars (or at least as identical as I can make them) with 4 different types of Rosewood back and sides. They're Adi topped Dread with Brazilian Rosewood, East Indian Rosewood, Honduran Rosewood, and Panama Rosewood back and sides. I deflection tested, weighed, and tapped all of the pieces for the tops to make them as identical as possible. I learned alot, including the fact that I'll never work on 4 guitars at once again. I'm not a factory, and I don't enjoy batch processing. LOL Some of you already know about this, but I thought some other2 might enjoy it. You can see alot about them, and hear some short recordings here. http://brackettinstruments.com/rosewood.html

Here's a picture.
Author:  Parser [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
Cool project..! I thought the BRW sounded the best with the Panama RW a close second. All of the clips sound good though...I'm just splitting hairs...beautiful instruments!
Author:  Chris aka Sniggly [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
I too would be interested to hear your 'take' on the guitars. By the sound clips you can definitely hear differences in the 4.

As much as I'd like to say that a different rosewood came out on top...(I only say that cuz I've never built with BRW before and can't afford it)....for me...the brazilian clip just had an edge on clarity, punch, etc.
Author:  jncllc [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
I agree with Chris. Maybe a little more sustain also.
Author:  woody b [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
Filippo Morelli wrote:
I'd love to here your personal observations on these guitars, since you've heard them with your own ear.

Filippo



I'd hate to have to pick which one I think sounds best. They're all different at least to my ears. The Honduran Rosewood is louder by a noticable amount. It's also the heaviest. I've heard alot of people describe Honduran Rosewood as "glassy", and also "Brazilian on steroids". I think I can agree with both descriptions. It's owner is a 'grasser, and I don't think it will get lost in the mix or Banjos, Fiddles and Mandolins. The East Indian Rosewood one has a......metallic overtone that I hear in 99.9% of big guitars with East Indian Rosewood backs and sides. (I don't hear that overtone in many small bodied EIRW guitars). I love the Braz one. To my ears it's got the rumble, and zing, but that's what Braz is supposed to do isn't it. The Panama Rosewood, at least to my ears, is the most balanced. It's got some rumble, and some zing, with a little more midrange. That's the way I hear it anyway. I posted 2 polls on the Acoustic Guitar forum, with different recordings. The Honduran Rosewood won both polls.

I've heard, and read alot of people say that 90% (or some other large number) of the tone comes from the top. I don't see it that way. I'd say 90% or more of the sound comes from the top, but it's influenced in may ways by the back. It's kinda funny that I use electric guitar examples for my acoustic top/ back view. To me the top is the speaker. (the body size/style is the speaker cabinet) The back and sides are the effects rack and/or pedal board. Some Eq comes from the speaker and cabinet (the top, and the size/shape/style), but alot of the EQ, as well as reverb, compression, ect comes from the rack/pedal board (the back/sides). I do believe a bad top = bad tone, but then a bad speaker would equal bad tone reguardless of what's in the rack.
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
Great project, Woody. Yes, we'd like your impressions of the four. I think you need some blind test opinions, both by players and audience, to get an good sample of which is the favorite sound. Was there any noticeable difference between the tap tones of the tops? I get a pretty wide range in tap tones from the adi that I use. I think it would have been interesting to have mixed up the sound clips to see if we are listening with our preconceived notions.
Author:  woody b [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
Quote:
Was there any noticeable difference between the tap tones of the tops? I get a pretty wide range in tap tones from the adi that I use.


I went though over 20 tops to (try and) pick 4 that were the same in weight, stiffness and tap tone. These 4 weren't the stiffest, or lightest, but they all seemed the same to me. 3 of the guitars are gone, but I have an agreement with their owners to get them all back for a couple weeks in a year for more recordings. I've got some other recordings somewhere. I'll try to dig them up and post them without identification.
Author:  ChuckB [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
They all sound and look great Woody. I lean towards the Braz ever so slightly. Out of cuoriosity, Do you have the finish weights of each guitar?

Chuck
Author:  Darryl Young [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
Very nice guitars Woody and cool project. I would LOVE to play these in person and hear the differences myself. I'm surprised how well I like the Panama rosewood. Hard to tell if I like the Brazillian best or not......I did the first listen through but subsequent listens had the Honduran about even.
Author:  Haans [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
What, no Coco?!? ;)
I'm witcha, I hate building in batches...we don't need no stinkin' batches...
VG sounding instruments!
Author:  woody b [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
Haans wrote:
What, no Coco?!? ;)
I'm witcha, I hate building in batches...we don't need no stinkin' batches...
VG sounding instruments!


I'm allergic to Cocobolo. I would have liked to include African Blackwood, Madagascar Rosewood, and even a Mahogany "reference" guitar but I felt like 4 was already too many.

Chuck, I've got the weights on my other computer. I'll post them later.
Author:  Jon L. Nixon [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
The recordings- did the musician know which instrument he/she was playing? Not that it matters....... [:Y:]
Author:  woody b [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
Jon L. Nixon wrote:
The recordings- did the musician know which instrument he/she was playing? Not that it matters....... [:Y:]



I'm the "musician" but I don't get called that very often laughing6-hehe My Wife names the recordings "guitar 1" "guitar 2" ect, and I correctly picked them days later.
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
That was great, thanks for doing that.

I was surprised that I could really hear a distinct difference - I agree that the Indian has a somewhat more metallic, maybe brash tone to it? I'd be hard pressed to say whether the differences between the other three were the wood or the guitars, or which I liked better. It does make me want to stock up on Honduran, though.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
First of all I would like to congratulate you for the effort. I don't think I'd try even with 2. Here is the criticism: I think you should have thinned the backs and sides to the same target weight or stiffness. Please accept my apologies if you actually did it, but you said the Honduras guitar is the heaviest. If all rosewood was thinned to the same thickness rather than weight, i think the test has lost some of its potential value. How much, I'll ask the rest of you beehive beehive

As for ranking, for what's a recording and my mood tonight worth: 1. braz 2. indian 3. panama 4. honduras idunno
Author:  Ti-Roux [ Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
Great Idea! You should extract more results of this experience... You maybe should bring the four to a pro studio and really check the differences between each one, regarding the harmonics, the frequencies volumes, etc..

I've thought to do the same experience, but the inverse... Same model, B&S, fingerboard, bracings,etc... but change the top.. Sitka, engleman, Adi, WRC, Redwood. Or, do exactly the same guitars but with way different bracings...

Anyways... Great work! And, by the way, they're amazing :mrgreen:
Author:  Corky Long [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Battle of the Rosewoods
Wow - very cool project. Thanks for sharing.
Gotta say I actually prefer the Honduran - although the Braz is also impressive. The difference between those and the Indian, which I liked the least, is really something!
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