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U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
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Author:  rich altieri [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Saw what I think is a new product from LMI called U-Beaut Hard Shellac. Anyone used this yet ??? Wondering how it worked. From description sounds like the answer to French Polish with Polyurethane like hard finish.

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Finishes&NameProdHeader=U%2DBeaut+Hard+Shellac
Author:  bob J [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Rich,
I have the same question. I know that more than a year ago it seemed to be a hot topic. Seems as though things have cooled down. I don't know the reason
Author:  bob J [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Rich,
I have the same question. I know that more than a year ago it seemed to be a hot topic. Seems as though things have cooled down. I don't know the reason
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
I have used it. This is a second generation product as the first had some checking issues if I remember correctly. It is a heavy pound cut of shellac with additives (top secret of course) It can be diluted and used as a french polish. The additives make for a durable but repairable finish. It is also great for repair work. I like it.
Author:  bob J [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Robbie,
Do you cut it 1:1 for FP?
Bob
Author:  bob J [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Robbie,
Do you cut it 1:1 for FP?
Bob
Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
rich altieri wrote:
Saw what I think is a new product from LMI called U-Beaut Hard Shellac. Anyone used this yet ??? Wondering how it worked. From description sounds like the answer to French Polish with Polyurethane like hard finish.

http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Finishes&NameProdHeader=U%2DBeaut+Hard+Shellac


I've used it too on a little soprano uke last Feb. It still looks great and no checking. Here is a pic of it:
Attachment:
front.jpg

I used Robbie's FP method and cut it with Everclear to a 1:1 ratio.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Tracy, how's it holding up in terms of scratches? Does it seem to be really all that tough?
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
I coud be wrong here but I belive it comes as a 4# cut if true if re-cut 1:1 you would be approching a 2 pound cut + or - based on the percentage of aditives. that is near the typical FP cut ratio. I did not try it due to the checking and grazing issue reported on it.

The funny thing is it is calimed to out last shellac. To me that is ahard sell because shellac finishes have lasted for centuries. u-Beaut has not been around long enough to make that claim in my opinion.

Also claimed longer burn in life than shellac I read that and my puny brain went "Wait a moment" [headinwall] laughing6-hehe
Author:  woody b [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
If it's as hard as advertised will it offer the tonal benefits of a (real) FP shellac finish.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
woody b wrote:
If it's as hard as advertised will it offer the tonal benefits of a (real) FP shellac finish.


I would suspect yes with a minium increase in dampening cauise by the aditives.

by the way this would still be a real FP if appied per FP processes.
Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Todd Rose wrote:
Tracy, how's it holding up in terms of scratches? Does it seem to be really all that tough?

Todd,
I actually did a test the other day where I pressed with my thumbnail pretty hard on the edge of the top and it still dented. So I can't really tell if it is actually harder that regular FP. Someone would have to do a controlled test to really test this. It is a beautiful finish and goes on quite easy. So it will save you some mix time and it does add a little hardness.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Thanks, Tracy. Do you mean just the finish dented, or that the surface of the wood itself dented? If just the finish dented, that would suggest to me that the finish is not especially hard. If the wood dented, that would suggest that you pressed hard enough that even a very hard finish would not have withstood the test.

(I love scientifically precise tests like this :D )
Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Todd Rose wrote:
Thanks, Tracy. Do you mean just the finish dented, or that the surface of the wood itself dented? If just the finish dented, that would suggest to me that the finish is not especially hard. If the wood dented, that would suggest that you pressed hard enough that even a very hard finish would not have withstood the test.

(I love scientifically precise tests like this :D )


Todd,
I'd say that just the finish dented as I stopped pressing as soon as I saw it give. Yes, this was an extremely scientific test ;)
Author:  woody b [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Michael Dale Payne wrote:
woody b wrote:
If it's as hard as advertised will it offer the tonal benefits of a (real) FP shellac finish.


................................................................
by the way this would still be a real FP if appied per FP processes.



I understand. I should have said "old fashioned" or something like that. I wonder what it weighs compared to.........."regular" shellac. Hey, "regular" would have been a better choice of words that "real" 8-)
Author:  Graham McDonald [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
I'll come out of lurk mode to make a few comments on the Hard Shellac. The original stuff that they introduced in Australia a few years ago was too hard and had a tendency to craze. I had a mandolin which took on a rather 'antique' look a few weeks after finishing it. After a few of us made noises about that they added a plasticizer which added a more flexibility. I have a couple of mandos that have survived well for a year or so using the new formulation. I spray it rather than french polish it, cut around 50% with alcohol and sprayed at the lowest possible pressure so it doesn't dry before hitting the instrument. It needs a lot less coats than nitro (as more solids not evaporating off) and can be cut back and polished in a few days. It doesn't seem to have the absolute gloss of nitro, but that may just be my finishing technique. I can see no down-side to it, no toxic thinners so you can use it almost anywhere, it gets hard and impervious so you won't stick to it and though it isn't cheap (about A$25 for 500ml here) it probably works out about the same as a nitro finish and takes less time.

cheers

graham
Author:  rich altieri [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Positive comments and plan on trying it out with FP application. Thanks for the feedback guys. Always appreciate it. Surprised it hasnt had more attention based on claims
Author:  sebastiaan56 [ Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Ive also had it on a number of instruments for about 18 months now. None are showing scratches or the like but they dont get rugged use. I think it is more resistant to chipping etc. I use FP technique to apply and can get a good gloss with energetic spiriting off. As Graham has said lower toxicity is a big selling point.
Author:  MaxBishop [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Two years ago there was a buzz on the OLF about this product. Bob Connor and others in Australia were using it to spray finish guitars with stunningly beautiful results! I was very interested and tried to get ahold of some, but learned that it was not then available through a distributor here in the US. I believed Tracy at Luthier's Suppliers got involved in attempts to make it available here in the states.

Later Bob connor's sprayed finish crazed. I talked to other folks who were trying to get it reformulated. That was the last I heard about it till the present thread. I wonder if anyone knows if the product was reformulated successfully to avoid the crazing on sprayed finishes?

I would like very much to find out about this for my own possible use.

Thanks to all,
Max
Author:  Pete Brown [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
With the new formulation supposedly addressing the crazing issues reported previously, I took the risk of using this product on a guitar destined for my own use. I sprayed a series of what I thought were thin coats of a 2lb cut over two warm days, waiting an hour or so between coats - I can't remember the exact number. After several months I can see minor crazing on the neck and there's some slight crazing on the body too if I look closely. If indeed the makers have successfully reformulated it, I can only conclude that it's too sensitive for my fledgling skills with the spray gun. Perhaps those with better developed skills will have greater success. In any case, I won't be using it again despite the apparent ease of spraying and the high gloss I was able to achieve. It's KTM-SV for me from now on.

Cheers
Pete
Author:  ClintB [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Quote:
After several months I can see minor crazing on the neck and there's some slight crazing on the body too if I look closely. If indeed the makers have successfully reformulated it, I can only conclude that it's too sensitive for my fledgling skills with the spray gun.


Can anyone tell me if it would be just as liable to crazing if it was applied in the FP method? Does the method of application (spraying, for instance) have anything to do with crazing? I'm going to be re-FPing my classical this winter, and I'd love to give it a go, but I don't want to have to re-finish in a year or two.

I only ask because I don't really know how crazing happens and if it's the result of having many seperate layers of finish like you get with spraying (as opposed to a single, amalgamated layer like a french polish will give).

Please forgive any misunderstanding/miscommunication on my part as I've only done a handful of finishes so far.

Thanks,
Author:  sebastiaan56 [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Ive never sprayed and only used my sloppy FP technique. Ive not had any crazing problems. I think the issue is about the thickness of the coats. I know there is something in the formulation that polymerizes. Probably in contact with air. I also do my FP sessions twice a day for two to three days so the finish is reasonably thin. I have used BLO and straight Linseed Oil on the rubber and I think I prefer BLO. Im sure other oils such as Walnut would work as well.
Author:  ClintB [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
Thanks for your reply, Sebastiaan.

May I ask how long you've had the finish on your instruments?

-Clint
Author:  sebastiaan56 [ Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: U-Beaut Hard Shellac - Anyone Tried it ??
On an IV F5 mandolin kit - 2 years, on a IV A5 mandolin kit - 3 years
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