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| Unused stock Swan chisels http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=24874 |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Unused stock Swan chisels |
I am more and more attracted to getting vintage tools instead of the new shiny stuff. When Swan went out of business in early 50's they had a large stock of unsold stuff and some of it is still available for very attractive prices. I read someone suggesting that the later chisels might not be as good as the very old ones. So I was wondering if any of you have this kind of old stock product and if the steel is good. Thanks. |
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| Author: | Andy Birko [ Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unused stock Swan chisels |
Neat stuff - I googled it and found this: http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthread ... =5&o=&vc=1 Looking on ebay, there are quite a few available for $20 to $30. Could be an interesting score if they're good. |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unused stock Swan chisels |
Yes that's what I read prompting me to post here. That one unbeliever might be basing his opinion simply on the saying "they are not making them like they used to". OK, but honestly I think humans figured out this rather earlier, not sure if during the Stone Age, or maybe later when rusty iron replaced bronze! |
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| Author: | george wilson [ Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unused stock Swan chisels |
I was Master Toolmaker in a museum for many years. I re hardened and re tempered several antique chisels!! The old ones are usually better,but NOT ALWAYS. I also have 350 carving tools,some 200 years old. I can tell you that there were big quality variations in hardening and tempering even in well known brands like Addis,which I must have 100 of. The hardening and tempering were done by hand back then,but workmen still got tired,drunk,upset with the job,or whatever,and made bad jobs. My favorite carving tools AND CHISELS,out of all I have, are new made Pfiel from Switzerland,which Woodcraft Supply sells. You will not go wrong with them. |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unused stock Swan chisels |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unused stock Swan chisels |
George, thank you very much for the very interesting info! There is always fascinating stuff coming from you. A while ago I was looking at some antique tools and under a John Green chisel it was saying "this should belong in Williamsburg" and I instantly thought about you  Tony, thanks! Actually I learned about Swan from you. In an older chisel discussion you said they take a very sharp edge and I got interested as I am always crazy about good old stuff.... |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unused stock Swan chisels |
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| Author: | MRS [ Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unused stock Swan chisels |
I like old tools in general and do pick up old chisels and gouges when i can but I found much of the old stuff even though its well built the tool steel is not always better then some modern stuff. A lot of my old chisels sharpen well but the edge doesn't hold up better then some of my modern chisels. I think steel technology is much better today then it was years ago. that being it doesn't mean all new chisels are better then old chisel. There is a lot of junk being produced today and you know the saying you get what you paid for...Mike |
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| Author: | george wilson [ Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unused stock Swan chisels |
Alexandru,I didn't mean to infer that all old chisels are bad. Some are,though,and getting an antique tool doesn't guarantee a good one. Swan is a good name,Witherby and Butcher are a few others. Greene was an 18th.C. maker. I can't remember if his company also worked into the 19th.C.. Probably did. I have had to grind away laminations near the cutting edge of chisels where the weld came apart. On real old chisels,there was about 2" of tool steel welded onto the bottom of the chisel. I hated to waste 3/8" of it,but no other way to fix it. I had craftsmen bring me antique chisels that the edge turned over like a fish hook from not being hardened at all. Had to grind that away,and re harden and temper the chisel. We weren't supposed to use antiques,but many craftsmen bought them for themselves and used them anyway. Laminated plane blades were made into the 20th.C. in England,and other European places. You can see the lamination by polishing the edge of a chisel or plane iron with wet or dry paper,or on a fine whetstone.. The hardened lamination will be brighter than the soft metal it is welded to. In my own large collection of carving tools,I have had a whole set of pre war Addis that were hardened so hard that they would not hold a decent edge. I had to draw them softer. Too hard a chisel,plane iron,or any other carbon steel tool will not hold a good edge,because the microscopic edge breaks off.You can't see it because the chipping is so small,but the tool appears dull. I find the Swiss Pfiel chisels and carving tools,and bench knives equal to or better than any others I have used,and you can readily buy them. |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unused stock Swan chisels |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unused stock Swan chisels |
Honestly I love "bling" tools  I use several expensive Japanese chisels and some Blue Spruce stuff is on the way. On the other hand, old tools have a special charm completely missing from the average new chisel. Funny but my favorite now is my first, a 7/16" (11mm and a bit). It came from the rubbish box of a very old neighbor. It was severely bent, and the edge looked like it was used as a screwdriver. Massive hooped handle, great for chopping I would guess, but very uncomfortable for luthiery. When I found it I fixed the edge somewhat and used it a bit on my first guitar, later I bought good chisels and put it aside. On a whim, I recently hammered it back flat, polished the whole back, planed the handle to a slick profile, lightly coated it in shellac and I must say with the slim lightened handle it feels just great for paring, it gets *very* sharp and holds it good enough. Not sure what the wood is, but it is very nice, maybe hornbeam.
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Unused stock Swan chisels |
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