A plane VS a ROS is a silly comparison anyhow.
A proper comparison would be a hand plane VS...a planer (or a jointer). A really unfair comparison would be a plane VS my face mill
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| Stock Prep As a Spectator Sport...FWW Hand Vs. Power Tools http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=24559 |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stock Prep As a Spectator Sport...FWW Hand Vs. Power Tools |
lol... A shootout? Hand tools vs Power tools on Speed? This sounds kinda like Ole John Henry and his 8-lb card scraper against the "Machine!" "Lord Lord let me die with my scraper in my hand" Thanks John |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stock Prep As a Spectator Sport...FWW Hand Vs. Power Tools |
No contest. Well set up plane with well behaved wood and the hand plane will win, quite easily. After all it might only take 3 or 4 strokes with a 'finishing' plane and it's done. You might have to change Grits on the ROS to achieve the same level of finish or smoothness. Go out of that 'comfort zone' and the outcome may be different. Bit of fun though. |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stock Prep As a Spectator Sport...FWW Hand Vs. Power Tools |
I don't care about the results, I like the machines over muscle power. My drum sander is great for removing wood from stock, though the scraper and RO sander on glued up bodies are the way to go. I will enjoy the watching the shootout. Fred |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stock Prep As a Spectator Sport...FWW Hand Vs. Power Tools |
A plane VS a ROS is a silly comparison anyhow. A proper comparison would be a hand plane VS...a planer (or a jointer). A really unfair comparison would be a plane VS my face mill
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stock Prep As a Spectator Sport...FWW Hand Vs. Power Tools |
They still aren't done! |
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| Author: | Andy Birko [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stock Prep As a Spectator Sport...FWW Hand Vs. Power Tools |
Bob Garrish wrote: A plane VS a ROS is a silly comparison anyhow. A proper comparison would be a hand plane VS...a planer (or a jointer). A really unfair comparison would be a plane VS my face mill I would disagree with you here. I've not seen a plane that leaves a finish ready surface although I suppose they could be out there. Whenever I've bought power planed lumber or planed it myself with my little delta 12" (which leaves a very good finish) it still needed finish sanding/scraping/hand planing to get rid of the scalloping from the rotary head. Even that little 12" delta which spins stupid fast leaves a scalloped surface. that said I agree with the others that I'm glad I don't have to chose one. I made some door and window trim which is basically just a picture frame and for that I used the hand plane - took like 5 minutes tops. I definitely wouldn't want to finish off a bandura or a guitar with a hand plane though, nor would I want to use one to flatten a 24" wide bandura top when the drum sander's right there! |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stock Prep As a Spectator Sport...FWW Hand Vs. Power Tools |
I was more concerned with the completely different processes and that a ROS won't keep the surface flat than the quality of machine planing. In machine planing, there would be some cleanup with most things available to a low-end pro shop or an amateur shop, though it would be interesting to see what a really skilled user could do with a jointer and a swipe of P1500 at the end. I have helical cutters that leave a surface so clean and smooth that the pores in ebony are a bit too obvious, but the companies doing the good tool research stopped caring about manually-fed machines sometime in the late 80's and now the gap between the quality of tooling for automated machinery VS manual machines is immense. If someone made a manually-fed jointer that would climb cut, that would change things! |
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| Author: | cphanna [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stock Prep As a Spectator Sport...FWW Hand Vs. Power Tools |
Well set-up hand planes (and lots of other hand tools) can do an astonishing job in the hands of a person who really knows how to use them, and they are often quicker than setting up a machine to do the same task. I haven't yet achieved a surface ready for finish with my hand planes, but I've seen it done. However, there's no question that you have to work a little harder. I often reach for a hand tool, simply because I prefer the noise they make to the noise that machines make. I use power tools for big work, or when I need repeatable accuracy, and similar situations. Whenever possible, I'd rather make shavings than dust. There's really no argument here. It just comes down to personal preference, and what works fastest and most dependably for the person doing the work. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stock Prep As a Spectator Sport...FWW Hand Vs. Power Tools |
It's no great secret. The plane itself must be well set up and the blade impeccably sharp, along with the all important slight camber on the blade. Wispy thin shavings. Plane in the right direction and on certain woods it will leave an extremely smooth surface that is ready for the finish. Even a simple wooden plane (well set up) is capable of that. On bookmatched Guitar woods the chances are that you aren't going to be able to leave that kind of surface, or rather it's possible to do it on one side of the plate but not the other. |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stock Prep As a Spectator Sport...FWW Hand Vs. Power Tools |
Might be worth a mention that soft woods often like a shallower angle, less than 45°. Most Japanese planes are 42° for finish planing soft woods. And contrary to what one might think soft woods require sharper tools to get clean surfaces. Not that you wouldn't want absolutely sharp tools for either hardwoods or softwoods but soft woods, and as Todd mentioned, figured hardwoods are the acid test of blade sharpness. Link |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Stock Prep As a Spectator Sport...FWW Hand Vs. Power Tools |
I would have liked to have seen that test but unfortunately, work got in the way. I just finished up a chest/trunk for my wife made from flat to rift sawn black walnut. I was going to try my Lie Nielsen smoother (55 degree) or my new scraper plane over sandpaper prior to finish. I've always sanded before finishing so am not sure what to expect yet. From some of the posts above, it sounds like the smoother may be the ticket? Oops, forgot where I was. I...ahem, just finished a walnut guitar for my wife and (see above) 
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