Sounds like you might have a Dobro if you put on steel strings. That is, until it self-destructs.......
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| Author: | Fret21 [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Convert classical to steel string |
Hi everyone, Well this is my first post here on this amazing site....thanks for the resource, its so incredibly interesting. I've got what was a cheap old Spanish guitar which is totally unplayable. I want to convert it to steel string, just wondering what problems I may encounter. The top has sunk a lot but the action is very high, strange?. Its got ladder bracing with a sort of fan tail arrangement behind the bridge plate. Fret |
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| Author: | Edward Taylor [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
Hi and welcome. There are a lot of things on a classical guitar that do not really translate over too steel string guitars so well I would think. Classical soundboards are not braced to support the tension of steel strings so you would probably have to take the top off and put a new one on with steel string style bracing. You may be able to modify the bridge for steel strings some how. The fretboard is probably flat while steel string fretboards have a radius, it may also be too wide for steel strings. You would also probably have to change the tuners but I am not sure. I do not really see why you would want to do this, not to discourage you. If it is an experiment just to gain experience I would say go for it. |
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| Author: | Jon L. Nixon [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
Sounds like you might have a Dobro if you put on steel strings. That is, until it self-destructs.......
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| Author: | Fret21 [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
Ed, Yes, I think it is an experiment. If I don't spend too much then it will be worth the investigation either way. To do nothing seems such a waste of lovely old wood. Mahogany?. I do have lots of experience with wood and tools, albeit not in the guitar world, so fingers crossed maybe I can breath new life into the old crock.....lol I |
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| Author: | Fret21 [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
Jon, Thks for the info. How difficult would it be to radiius the fretboard?, would I need some sort of special tool. Yes it is flat but quite thick. Of course I'd have to fit a truss rod which would mean removal of F/B....the fun begins I think (not)...lol |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
The geometry of a classical guitar is all wrong for installing steel strings. The Classical has a forward pitched neck, by design. The steel string has an opposite pitch. And, that's before you get into any of the bracing stuff, which is totally different. There is near 100 lbs of difference in the string pull between classical strings and steel strings. The top will be too thin, and the braces too small and improperly placed, by design. Also, if it has a Spanish foot, it will be difficult to reset the neck to the back angle. I wouldn't recommend trying to change it, unless you just want to do a complete rebuild. Why not just build a steel string. It would be easier than re-building the classical. |
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| Author: | John A [ Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
Waddy is right - you would simply destroy the old wood you prize. Put it in a closet, or rebuild it as a classical and redo the soundboard. It would be more worth your time to start a steel string from scratch than to destroy a nylon by trying to put steels on it. |
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| Author: | HippetyHop [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
Hey Fret, don't fret. Want to learn lap-steel ?   This belongs to my mate Mark. It's probably 3 years ago when he put the tailpiece on it. The tuners just went on though. He had to buy the steel string tuners. The old classical tuners had the plastic sleeves glued to the shafts making them unconvertable. Next he's going to try to raise the break angle slightly by putting a tall brass saddle in, and perhaps a brass nut too. I suppose he's just waiting for me to go and scrounge the brass. Plays and sounds OK. Loud enough for us old rockers. Cheers Hip. |
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| Author: | Fret21 [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
Hi Hip.. Ok...So tell me about that guitar. How have you increased the strength to cope with steel. Did you fit a truss rod. I've just starting pulling mine apart, figured, what the heck its a complete wreck anyway and worth zilch. So I've just noticed there is'nt a neck block as such, maybe this needs some sort of re-inforcement like a thick triangular mahogany fillet or something. Anyway tell us all about your convertion....note pad and pencil are at the ready.! Fret |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
Every once in a while somebody will use a tailpiece like that to take the tension off the bridge on a classical using steel strings. It works: you still have the torque, but not the shear load that rips off the bridge. The fact that it's not commonly done tells you something. Most of the important differences between nylon and steel string guitars have to do with the strings. It's not just the tension, although that's part of it. The higher tension of steel strings gives you about twice as much power, but, what's more important is that the exta energy is all in the high frequency range. With nylon string guitars you're trying to get all the treble out of the strings you can, but with steel strings you're trying to get enough bass to balance off all of that treble. One outcome of this is that stringing one sort of guitar with the other kind of strings doesn't usually produce a 'good' sound. Just to get an idea of the direction it would go, you could put on a set of Thomastic 'S' series classical strings. These have a steel rope core, with the trebles being wrapped with nylon tape. They have a very 'steely' sound, but pull the same tension as normal classical strings. |
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| Author: | John Hale [ Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
I've though about converting a scrap classical I've used as the top was stoved in I used it to practice repairs I'd intended to remove the fretboard and install a truss rod and swap the bridge over to a pinned one also I wouldn't care if it self destructed as it's give me more repair experience, also I wondered what fan bracing would sound like with steel strings. |
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| Author: | Eric Reid [ Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
I put a set of D'Addario light gauge phosphor bronze strings on a cheap import classical a couple of years ago, just to see what would happen. I didn't modify the guitar at all. I just ran the strings through the tie block, let the ball ends hold them in place, and wound the strings on the cheesy classical tuners that came with the guitar. The results surprised me. The bridge didn't fly off. (Two years later, it's still doing fine.) The top didn't cave in or bulge up an inordinate amount. The neck is fine too, but this model does have a truss rod. On the other hand, it sounded terrible--very shrill. And of course, the intonation is a joke. If you want to try the same thing yourself, I suggest you buy a set of D'Addario "Custom Light .011-.052 Phosphor Bronze". Buy these and an individual .009 steel string. Throw away the.052 6th string, and move each string over one position, using the .009 for your first string. Now you have a set of steel strings that has the same tension as a classical set. I would never do this on a nice guitar, but on a cheapo, it's an interesting experiment. |
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| Author: | KMartin [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
Here's one that began life as a classical: Attachment: Front2med.jpg This was an old Gianinni with BRW back and sides. I replaced the top, re-profiled the neck and reinforced it with graphite bars, replaced the fretboard, re-profiled the top of the peghead, and refinished. By replacing the top, you can adjust the neck angle to fit. This was a major overhaul which we felt was justified by the wood involved. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
One more fine guitar ...... RUINED!  ![[headinwall]](./images/smilies/headbangwalluf8.gif "Mad") OH the Horror! 
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| Author: | Fret21 [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
Waddy....lol! Its ok its just a cheapo spanish school grade git. There must be literally thousands of them around the world. And this one is'nt worth spending money on. Ive built wooden sailing boats, and been playing and tinkering with electric guitars for over 35 yrs. I can see all the problems, so who knows it may just work...tell you what Ill take some pics and do an Mp3 when its done.... Fret |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
I know, and I was only kiddin! I might even stoop and build a SS some day! 
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| Author: | KMartin [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
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| Author: | peterm [ Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
WaddyThomson wrote: I know, and I was only kiddin! I might even stoop and build a SS some day! Hwy Waddy, maybe you should challenge yourself and do it! 
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
WaddyThomson wrote: I know, and I was only kiddin! I might even stoop and build a SS some day! Heh, you just need more fall-away in the lower bout to lower the bridge relative to the neck, and maybe an X brace ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") I was thinking of giving this a try, after I finish the regular classical versions that I'm working on, in whatever year that occurs (hard to tell these days) |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Convert classical to steel string |
I have thought about it more than once. I even have a Sitka top that I was, originally, going to use on my first, just sitting there cut to shape. Maybe I'll make a small one using the same body plan, but with different geometry, to get the right neck angle. With this small a body it could be an X or a Ladder brace. |
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