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Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=24474		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Gregg C [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 am ]
Post subject:  Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
Hi guys,
I'm preparing to purchase a drum sander, I've decided I want the Jet product.
Can't decide which one to buy, either the 16-32 or 22-44.
The width of a Dred is just under 16" so the the 16-32 would just barely work,
Maybe even a chance for the joined back or top to migrate from one side or another and
miss the drum...yes / no ?? Not an issue with the 22-44.
Any thoughts from you guys with the 16-32 ??
Gregg
Author:  Wayne Clark [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
I find the 16-32 to work just fine. I thin just about everything I put through it by taking multiple passes and rotating the piece each pass to cancel out any uneven removal. Joined tops and back get the same treatment. The 22-44 would be overkill for me, and I don't really have the space for it in my shop.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
I know it's a bigger investment, but I highly recommend a Woodmaster. IMO, it's simply a far superior machine in every way. It's in a whole other league. It's American made, the customer service is tops, and it's not THAT much more expensive. They have great deals going on them now, too. You won't regret it. In fact, you'll love yourself for doing it.

This is me since I got my Woodmaster 2675: bliss and [clap] (applauding myself for doing it)

http://www.woodmastertools.com/s/drum.cfm
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
How much does it cost?
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
Extra width in the roller means tighter tolerance control with in a given length provided the roller is in plane over the full length. If it is out of plane It can mean greater possibility of out of tolerance. So it is a two edge sword. That said I can say that you will find usefulness for what ever extra width you may have available, so it is hard to say the 44" would be wasteful.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
Chris Paulick wrote:
How much does it cost?


Hey Todd, would you mind telling us how much?

BTW, I have a 10-20 and do harp tops with it. But it would be nice to be able to do single passes.

Mike
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
Hey! Just saw this on another forum. If you really want a 16-32, this would be the place to get it from!!!

I just got an email promotion from www.toolnut.com out of New York. 18% off on Black Friday weekend for all Powermatic and Jet tools. I've bought from them before and got good price and excellent service. They don't have a working website, that is, one you can order from. Just email Sean at info@toolnut.com and he will get back to you with quote. Order now to reserve for end of month
Examples:

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Regular $2599.99
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Powermatic 3520b Lathe - The Holy Grail of Powermatic Lathes
Sliding headstock, Variable Speed, 2 HP motor, 35" center-center and 20" over the bed and over 600 lbs...this lathe has it all.
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FREE freight including residential and lift gate delivery to your door!
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
Free shipping, the discount price is $819. That includes the stand!

Mike
Author:  SteveSmith [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
So Todd, what do you think of the Woodmaster? :D
Author:  SimonF [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
The Woodmaster is vastly superior to the Jet / Performax sander. And I have heard some negative things about the Delta. The advantage with the Woodmaster is that the dust collection is superior. I had a substantial decrease in resin build up on the sandpaper with the Woodmaster. I now have a wide-belt which is a massive improvement over the Woodmaster but IMO, the Woodmaster is the only drum sander I would consider, assuming you can afford the extra cost. I also owned a Performax 22-44 before the Woodmaster and so I have experience with both machines.

The only negative with the Woodmaster would be in regards to making your own purfling. The velcro acts as a buffer and it takes a VERY careful approach to get an exact thickness for the purfling. Just a couple thousands off with the purfling and you will notice it on the guitar. However, for tops / back / sides the woodmaster is substantially better. You can still make your own purfling with the Woodmaster but you really have to go slowly. Basically, just take a little off and pass the wood thru the sander several times. Then take a couple thousandths off and repeat. If you do that when you are within 0.010" of where you want to be then you will be fine. Regardless, the Woodmaster will still save you loads of time over the Performax since you won't have as much trouble with resin buildup. It is a fantastic machine for a luthier.

Please note -- excellent dust collection is necessary for a drum sander to work properly.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
I got my Woodmaster this spring for $2K, which included $300 worth of abrasives (my choice of grits) for free. They also cut the freight cost in half for me - $150 rather than $300. I believe they have similar deals going now - maybe even better - I'm sure they're doing whatever they can to keep sales going and stay afloat in these hard economic times.

I will start a new topic soon to give a more complete review of the Woodmaster. Suffice to say, it's great. It may be twice the price of a Jet (if you get a good deal on that), but it is easily ten times the machine.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
I've had my eye on this dual 5" drum sander. It's on sale now.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/24-Drum-Sander/G1066R
Or this one with a speed controled feed.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/24-Drum ... -VS/G1066Z
Author:  Todd Rose [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
SimonF wrote:
The advantage with the Woodmaster is that the dust collection is superior. I had a substantial decrease in resin build up on the sandpaper with the Woodmaster.


I second that - it's a HUGE improvement in that regard. Not only is the dust collection superior, the drum is bigger around, which dissipates heat better. I suspect the velcro also helps dissipate heat. I'm amazed at how little clogging I get on the abrasive - virtually none, even when sanding very resinous woods. That, as Simon says, saves loads of time, and that alone makes the machine worth the cost.

BTW, I have no problems at all with the velcro attachment. You might read some reviews where people talk about problems with that system, but I believe it's user error, not anything problematic with the velcro system itself (some have even complained about the velcro melting - they are obviously utterly clueless and are trying to remove an absolutely insane amount of material per pass). It works great in every way.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
I don't see any advantage at all to a dual drum sander for lutherie purposes. I see a lot of disadvantages. I would definitely not want my Woodmaster to have dual drums.
Author:  Rene [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
I'm probably the clueless guy mentioned here but when I first used my woodmaster I did try to remove too much resulting in melted velcro. That was my own learning curve and I have not had a bit of trouble since. When i mentioned that in my post I think I was trying to keep someone from having a similar expeirence. It was not meant to be a put-down of the woodmaster or it's velcro system.
Rene
Author:  Todd Rose [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
Sorry, Rene. Didn't mean to point a disparaging finger at you. Actually, I think it was other places that I read that, not here on the OLF, and in each case I remember it being stated as a fault of the machine, rather than an admission of user error and a warning to avoid the same mistake. I read other negative comments about the velcro system, too, having to do with difficulty in accurate thicknessing and difficulty with keeping the abrasive wrapped securely on the drum; I strongly suspected that all of these supposed problems were really about the users not doing things correctly, and now that I have the machine, it's clear that that was the case.
Author:  Mike Lindstrom [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
I'm sure Todd's right about the Woodmaster being vastly superior, but I picked up a 22-44 from Craigslist and I love it. I would not have any hesitation buying it again. I'm a hobbiest, only working on one project at a time. If I ever have the cash and the space, I'd probably upgrade, but I don't need to. The Jet does everything I bought it for without complaint and every week, I realize another thing it makes simpler and more consistent.

As to your original question, lots of guys here have talked about using a 10-20 and having no trouble. I'm sure the 16-32 would be fine. Of course, 3 days after your return/exchange window runs out, you're going to take on a project that REQUIRES a 32.375" wide sander. And probably another half inch or so on the throat of your bandsaw.

And to repeat others - drum sanders absolutely must have decent dust collection.

Mike
Author:  Haans [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
Back to the Jets, I have the 16-32 and it works very well. I have it set to a very slight taper and it does a swell job of tapering tops and backs.
Author:  Gregg C [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
So many choices !!
Can't....make....a....decision.... :o
Author:  Mike R [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
Greg,
I have the Performax 16-32 and it works just fine. It takes a while to get used to loading the paper, but it works great. I have a decent dust collector also. It is a Grizzly 2 HP. You need an adequate dust system to use these sanders. I'm sure the Woodmaster is a great machine, but it all comes down to what you can afford. I paid $600 for mine on Craigslist. It was barely used. Be patient and you should be able to find something similar. If you get the Performax, read the manual. Very important. I wasted quite a bit of paper before actually reading the manual. It's a "man thing".
Mike R
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
Greg,

If you have cash to burn, then get the woodmaster. Its that simple. If you do not have cash to burn, get the Jet/Performax 10-20, 16-32, or the 22-44 (though I think the 22-44 is getting up there in price).

The guys I mentioned above are selling the 16-32 for $819. I am sure you can pick up a 10-20 for ~$450. The thing about these Jet/Performax tools is if you buy right, you will get your money back out them when you upgrade (assuming you take good care of it and all of that).

Stay away from the Delta drum sanders... way too much bad press (it appears that their "X" models have addressed the issues, but I would personally still stay away).

There is a 10-20 in the classifieds also.

The Jets are fine for this work. They are not perfect, but way more than adequate.

Mike (and his 2 cents)
Author:  Gregg C [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
Thanks Guys !!
Author:  Jody [ Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
I have a 16/32 which works fine ..... except when you have a piece wider than 16" that is cupped or warped !my most recent build is with indian rosewood, because the back was not perfectly flat , I got quite a gouge where the end of the roller dug into the piece. if you have the funds I would buy the wider sander ! jody
Author:  Darryl Young [ Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
I bought a used 16-32 yesterday for $250. I've been watching awhile to find a good price on one and got lucky on this one. I'm sure I can get my money back.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jet 16-32 or 22-44 ??
I am not sure how you end up with a "gouge" on a wider piece unless you are running the conveyor too slow. My Harp tops and B&S sets come out fine on my 10-20. And in the 6 string world, that is about as big as they get. Yet, I would love a wider sander.

Mike
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