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| Adirondack Spruce http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=24387 |
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| Author: | ADK_Frank [ Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Adirondack Spruce |
New here and new to guitar building. My family sits on a large chunk of land up here(around 2000 acres) in the frigid adirondacks thats been in the family since turn of the century er um last century. Being half redneck adirondack mountain person I have a chainsaw andportable saw mill. Bumping around on this site through links found the videos on adirondack spruce. Since I have spent a many days in the woods chopping trees, mostly dead standing hardwoods for firewood, I know there's a good amount of of old growth spruce on the property. Now to my question to those loggers out there that are also luthiers. Whats going to best way to saw cut these spruce for tops flat sawn or quarter saw?. I can't quarter saw with my mill but I do a modified quarter saw where I cut the log in half and rotate each half for a cut. The thickness I should cut each board? Drying? and general price for these boards either green or fully dried? On another note how does Maple from my neck of the woods fair for guitar contruction? (necks bodies) As of now I am using the sugar maples for necks for my first two guitar builds. |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adirondack Spruce |
Frank, A while back now I posted a series of three threads on how I process spruce for tonewoods, from harvesting to milling and drying. I have attached the link to part 3 which has the links to parts 1 and 2. They should be useful to you. I also have a woodmiser sawmill but it is not used in processing standard guitar top sets (I use it for special tops link harp guitar sets and for back and side sets from round logs). I do it all with my chainsaw, splitting wedges and one of the two resaws I own. Let me know if you have questions, I hate seeing wood with good potential destroyed by poor processing! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8316&hilit=+harvesting Good Luck with it! Shane |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adirondack Spruce |
Before you go to far , how big are the trees you have. Another thing is what does the brack look like , Is there a twist in it or can you see other defect. I would advice finding a forest manager to see what you have. If you have red spruce , the reality is that not all logs will make a guitar. It is a rare piece of tree to be luthier grade . If you do have good spruce , you have a valuable resource and manage it carefully. |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adirondack Spruce |
You could contact Ralph Charles also. I attended a workshop he gave at this years ASIA conference on exactly what you are looking to find out. He is in the Adirondack's although I am not sure where. His email is rsc3@northnet.org I believe. That is from a few years ago but I think it should still work. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adirondack Spruce |
Frank : You need a good size tree if you are going to get guitar tops, 22 to 24 inches bhd. Quarter sawn for tops. For brace wood you can be smaller. Suggest you cut you tree in 24" junks and split them into quarters, and immediately put latex paint or paraffin wax on the butt ends.Then get them home and put them somewhere they can dry out slowly.If you don't have access to a good resaw suggest you could split the quarters for brace stock. A bit of money to be made there also. If you know the quality of the wood in relation to guitar tops suggest you could also sell the split quarters.No doubt you will get some more and no doubt better advice from other more experienced folks. P.S. I type so slow all the answer are there already....! |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adirondack Spruce |
Another thing Frank, If you decide to split the billets and then store them, (I try NOT to do this) then be sure to remove the bark right away. That is the vehicle for bugs that will very quickly degrade your wood. I process a sitka hybrid so I have to remove the sapwood as it dries a different colour, you won't have to remove the sap wood as it will dry nearly the same colour as the rest of the tree. I prefer to process the wood green and dry it right away, virtually zero loss to drying defect in my method and I don't need to waste time, spend money on materials or further contribute to the manufacture of toxic products by treating the ends. It is all in the three links I supplied though, including tree selection as John pointed out and buck lengths and diametres as Tom has discussed. I think the minimum diametre you could use would be about 32" at the butt, I need at least 42" but I have to remove sapwood. Shane |
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| Author: | Darryl Young [ Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adirondack Spruce |
Frank, I can't add anything to what has been said. Only thing I will say is find out exactly what you are doing before you get started. There is a limited supply of good red spruce so it would be a shame to waste any. Shane is an excellent resource for you so I would listen to his advice carefully. Good luck!!!.......and hope I get to buy a red spruce top from you in the next year or so. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | ADK_Frank [ Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adirondack Spruce |
Thanks for the response guys. I got out today mentioned the whole thing about spruce and guitar tops to my dad. He promptly took me out and point out couple of 36"+ logs of spruce he plans on milling up for lumber and there's more out there. As for red spruce yeah its there too as far as size I have no idea they seemed good size trees. Looks like I will have to call on favors from some of my cabinet maker and logger friends. One again thanks for the input I'll be back with updates ^^ |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adirondack Spruce |
I would suggest getting in touch with Tom Thiel. He's in New Hampshire. If you have red spruce trees suitable for making high quality guitar tops out of, you do indeed have a very valuable resource in your care. I would suggest working with someone who has extensive experience cutting tonewoods. Tom's a very nice guy, and, if he thinks you've got good red spruce trees, I bet he'd gladly travel to your location to check it out. Good luck. http://www.northwindtimber.com/ |
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| Author: | Tom Thiel [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adirondack Spruce |
Frank, If you have Red (or White) Spruce greater than 24" diameter breast height, I strongly suggest engaging a knowledgeable person to help evaluate potential for lutherie. It would be such a shame to use suitable wood for lesser purposes. Much can be assessed on the stump with a trained eye and an increment borer. Growth character is affected by many site conditions, so one good tree indicates potential for more good trees. I recommend letting any healthy tree continue to grow while you educate yourself. Feel free to email me tomthiel@worldpath.net or call 603-491-8889. Keep asking good questions. Tom Thiel / Northwind Tonewood |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adirondack Spruce |
I'd just cut down one good one and cut it up and keep all the wood for myself. Maybe some for friends and that would be enough for life. And let the rest of those old trees keep growing. 
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Adirondack Spruce |
For the potential value of 1 good log in Tops... I would gladly pay a Tonewood sawyer to come out and assess a log and go thru the basics of splitting it out, milling, etc... It is a very specialized process... If done right, you maximize the grade of wood by minimizing things like Runout and Off-quarter cuts.... Literally, the 1st sale would pay for the guy to come up and train you on how it's done.. Tell us how it pans out. John |
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