To avoid rippling, avoid too much water. As a matter of fact bend them dry. At 0.07 IRW is simply too easy, although bending 0.06 is even easier!
| Official Luthiers Forum! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=24344 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | Rene [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Ok, The book said .085" but I had a bit of brain slippage and ended up with .070" on my east indian R/W sides. Actually, what happened was I figured if I slowed my drum sander conveyor speed real slow, I would get a very nice smooth finish. Stoopid. My question is now what do I do? here are some choices I thought of, what do you think? 1. Keep going like it never really happened (this one scares me). 2. Throw them away and start over. (What will I tell my wife, this scares me even more). 3. Use them for headplates, end wedge, bridge plates, etc. Thanks, Rene |
|
| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
What size of a guitar is it. I think you are just fine for a 00 or classical. Might be OK for OM too. It will be important that you don't scorch the wood, and don't get much rippling. Sanding all this this will make them even thinner in the end. |
|
| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
You can survive with .07 sides. I do it all the time in the cutout area. You could also laminate a matrix like bias tape to the inside of the sides to stiffen them. though that will add a good bit of weight. While I do not like to, I have routed the binding ledge slightly into my linings. That is the biggest issue the .07 sides cause but still not the end of the world. If you elect to use these sides I would double up on the number of side braces used. |
|
| Author: | Jimmy Caldwell [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Rene, EIRW at .070 is fine. Just take care in the bending process that you don't get any ripples or other irregularities that need to be sanded out. I've seen many vintage era guitars with sides in the .060-.070 range that were still perfectly fine after many years of use. |
|
| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
To avoid rippling, avoid too much water. As a matter of fact bend them dry. At 0.07 IRW is simply too easy, although bending 0.06 is even easier!
|
|
| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
0.070 is a little thin, but not necessarily too thin. What size guitbox are you building? |
|
| Author: | Mike Collins [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Rene; laminate them . Bend them & then glue another wood on the inside of them. That way you'll get a rigid set of sides and will not worry so much ! Plus sanding them level will not thin then to much ! Mike 
|
|
| Author: | Daniel Minard [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
To make you feel a bit better... I recently did a repair on an EIR Martin Dred. It had fallen & poked a hole through the bass side just below the waist. When I was assembling the little pieces, to glue them back in place, I measured the side thickness... .041". And that includes the thickness of the finish! Thinner sides should bend easier with less cupping. Your sides will probably NEED less sanding than usual. Good luck... Worst case scenario, you need a new set of sides. EIR is relatively inexpensive & easily found. Send pics to the supplier & try for a good colour match. I'll bet it doesn't come to that, though. |
|
| Author: | Rene [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Thank you all, That's a great relief to hear that my sides are not toast. I'm building an OM from the Scott Antes plan. Thanks again, Rene |
|
| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Daniel Minard wrote: When I was assembling the little pieces, to glue them back in place, I measured the side thickness... .041". And that includes the thickness of the finish! What? Really? Is this a recent model? I wonder if Martin is finding ways to extend their wood supply. But building them more fragile seems like it might come back to bite them. Mike |
|
| Author: | bluescreek [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Take the antes plan and changed a few things, The braces are way overdone. You can use a 1/4 brace to 5/16 do not make them as thick as the plan. The location is close so that will be ok. The back braces are ok. |
|
| Author: | Rene [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
John, Yes, I read that somewhere and I will do as you suggest. thanks for reminding me. Rene |
|
| Author: | Cocephus [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Rene, I`ve made three of these from the Antes plan, and have found that the advice given on this forum runs pretty true. The best I have built yet has sides milled at .070", along with .030" side supports. I also cut down on other dimensions such as top bracing, and back thickness. BTW, are you sure that you`re building an OM or 000? The plan I have is for the Auditorium Size, Drawing No. AGP-07 Auditorium Size. 24.9" scale/14th fret join would apply to 000, IIRC. There`s a pretty good thread on this in the archives. Either way, don`t despair. As far as the Antes plan goes, buliding lighter seems to work better. From what I`m gathering thus far, he`s giving you the general idea and measurements needed to get you going. I`m pretty sure that he is a fine mechanical draftsman and does his job well, but finds he needs to keep out of the technical nature that we search for. Posterity seems to be his venue. Nothing wrong with that. The fret scale is right on. I really love the way my lightest guitar (also my everyday instrument, to keep me from getting spoiled by my electric) sounds, and it weighs quite a bit less, too. Don`t give up the ship. Coe Franklin |
|
| Author: | Tom West [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Martin has produced lots of guitars with thin sides. Don't think it's intentional but rather happens while being sanded after assembly of the box. It's certainly not to save money. |
|
| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
.050" to .060" is not unusual on many Martin guitars.....and that's on Dreadnought models, too. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
|
| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
I think by extending, I meant they might have been using sophisticated resaw cuts to get the pieces down to 1/8" or less... then flattening and normal scraping and sanding would take it further. To start off with a .1 or .09 side and then sand down to .05 or .04 seems like a lot of sanding. Maybe its because they use machines to do it. Mike |
|
| Author: | Rene [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Coe, I'm using the AGP-14 ("similar to orchestra model") plan from LMI. Rene |
|
| Author: | ChuckH [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Rene, I built a deadnought from Scott Antes plans and discovered too late that tuner holes 2 and 5 were positioned too close to the edge causing those strings to rub on 1 and 6 tuning pegs as they fed thru the nut. Be sure to inspect that closely on the OM plan. Hutch |
|
| Author: | Rene [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Thanks for the heads-up Hutch, I will look at that. Also, William C. has a neck tutorial on his Koa Build page that deals with that by having a couple of tuner holes slightly inboard or outboard of the normal straight line placement. I might try that. Rene |
|
| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Around .070" is where I thickness heavy rosewoods (HRW, cocobolo etc.) before bending. As many others have noted it will be fine. EIR bends very well, holds its shape and is probably one of the most stable tonewoods. |
|
| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: I thinned My EIRW Sides too Much |
Mike, You're right in saying that Martin uses machines to sand their woods down to the final desired thickness dimensions, but they use no sophisticated resaw techniques or anything different from what is being used by any of the resaw guys who sponsor here at the OLF. They use huge TimeSaver sanders and can remove .020" to .030" in a single pass if they're being aggressive with the wood and depending on the species. When you're pushing out the better part of 1000 guitars in a day, there's no time for additional time for passes through the machine or babying it in to that final thickness. I bought a 24 inch TimeSaver sander from Martin back in 1992 and have been running it in my bulk cut room since. Three machines sit for much of the time and run only four or five times a year for me and this is one of them. It's fast and very powerful, but not nearly as fast as the larger, more powerful units they're using in Nazareth now. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|