Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Truoil on an acoustic?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=24305		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  cgal_1 [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:40 am ]
Post subject:  Truoil on an acoustic?
Has anyone got thoughts on using this on a maple body. In the instructions it mentions not drying over certain woods. What about rosewood headstock?

I can't spray for about 7 months of the year because I must do it outside, so I'm looking for an alternative other than brushing varnish.

Has anyone done a 'how to do it' for truoil?

Charles.
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
I think this is a horrid finish for a guitar. At Bill Cory's site a few of the beginners used this . Many of them ended up stripping the stuff off. If you are looking for a safer finish because of your location or health and safety reasons, try French Polish. It is a safe finish and one that is worth the effort to learn.
Author:  matthewrust [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
I disagree, John. It is a great finish for back and sides and the neck if it is applied correctly (shellac seal coats, no lint at all, lots of very thin coats, proper pore filling). In fact, my one Tru-Oiled guitar was mistaken for nitro by one of the best finishers in the country. It is too soft for a top though.

That being said, the ease of application and buffing of lacquer can't be beat. In my mind, I can justify using that toxic stuff because I recycle everything, don't eat meat, and gave my car away last spring.
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
I have seen a few of them and they don't have the guitar look . It isn't a very good finish for a guitar. If it were more would be using it. I stand by my original opinion .
Author:  cgal_1 [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
Thanks for the advice. I'll try to find out more on how to French polish.
Charles.
Author:  Ken Bremer [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
When I took the course at Vermont Intstruments, we used truoil, as it was quick, and not a bad finish. Based on what George Morris has discovered in working with Blueberry Guitars in Bali, is that the process caused all sorts of problems with the humidity issues there. He has since gone to french polish - with an optional last coat of truoil for protection. I stopped by a couple weeks ago on our trip out east and was extremely impressed with the process. Plus you can do it without losing brain cells.

I found this site in my search for more help - looks pretty good to me. http://www.milburnguitars.com/fpbannerframes.html

Best of luck. I hope to be finishing number 2 by Christmas time, and will need to do it in the basement due to Wisconsin weather. French polish for the amateur seems like a perfect alternative.
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
John. I actually really like tru-oil although I am not an expert of any kind :D . Still those I have shown the guitar with true-oil on "Musicians" said it looks great, more natural looking 3D. than a sprayed polyth.. or cellulosa guitar. and yes I would have to agree that the for a top it might not be the best, but still works.

Lars.
Author:  matthewrust [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
...Not sure what "they didn't have the guitar look" means, but I can assure you that you can get good results. Like I said, I still prefer lacquer. But with proper surface prep and patience, Tru-Oil looks great.

It may just be that the ones you have seen were done sloppily. Last time I checked, Kinkead was offering Tru-Oil as an option and one other maker--maybe Bourgeois--was too.
Author:  Colin S [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
I don't agree with John at all, it is a very good finish for a guitar if properly applied. OK it may not look like the awful over-buffed glossy guitars that seem to be popular with some builders and players, but it allows a wooden guitar to still look like wood, much in the way that a well French polished guitar does.

The negativilty that some people have, comes mainly from those that have never used it themselves, or who have not understoodf the ptrocess of using it properly. So it's either second hand knowledge rather than from experience or it's bad workmanship being blamed on the materials rather than a lack of skill or knowledge of the user.

I use oil finishes extensively, as do a number of very high end builders on this side of the pond, and to me they are streets ahead of the plasticy over buffed guitars that are seen nowadays.

Use it well and you'll have a superb looking guitar.

Colin
Author:  stan thomison [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
I don't consider myself a beginner but who knows. I know I have done over 20 guitars with tru oil over the years and it is a great finish. Like any finish, it might not be the stuff used, but technique. You can have suck finsih and not look like a guitar whatever that is, and look like a beginner with nitro or any other finish. I mostly do nitro now, but have some fp and other finishes out there. No matter what doing in this job, it isn't again at times what is used, but how.
Author:  matthewrust [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
My guess (and I am sorry to assume like this) is that most guitars that are finished with Tru Oil are done by beginners because it is touted as the "beginner's choice" by StewMac, LMII, etc. Maybe that is where the bad rep is coming in.

For those of you using it on tops, can you tell me if you use shellac to seal and how many wipings? I sealed with two coats of shellac and about 8 wipings of the Tru Oil and it wasn't tough enough...
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
I finished a couple with tru-oil, or a combination of shellac and tru-oil, and I was able to get what I thought of as a very nice looking finish. I do prefer a straight french polish now that I know how to do it but I found the tru-oil much easier to apply. I did have drying issues over some rosewood and maccassar ebony.

As for hardness, it does seem to get harder over time, as does shellac. Actually, it seems a lot like shellac in a lot of ways, easy to dent etc... I did not have any problems with repairing it, that couldn't have been easier. Long term issues are again similar to shellac. I had one in a store just for people to play and they were not too careful with it (which was fine). After a year or so it looked like a very handled shellac finished guitar. Much of the gloss was dulled, there were obvious scratches in the finish.

I love the application of rubbing it on, I feel more confident doing it this way that I have a very thin film. Once again, good for tone but not for protection. I would reccomend sealing the top with shellac before applying the tru-oil if you are going to do it. Another benefit I found was that if done carefully, you could get a handsome finish without having to buff. For people who don't have a spray/buff setup, or can't have one due to space or environment, I feel like it is a decent and relatively painless finish option. Having said all of this where I would use tru-oil I now use waterlox. It seems to dry on anything with a little time. I haven't used it as a body finish, just on necks.

FWIW, I believe that tru-oil is what Ken Parker is using on his archtops.
Author:  matthewrust [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
What are you guys using to apply the oil? I have used old bed sheets, old t-shirts, lint-free paper towels, and the new "lint-free" rag material you can get from Lowes. I like the old t-shirts the best, but I am running out of old shirts... Any suggestions?
Author:  woody b [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
matthewrust wrote:
......................... I like the old t-shirts the best, but I am running out of old shirts... Any suggestions?



Buy some new shirts.................wear them, and then they're old shirts pizza pizza pizza

I'm sorry I couldn't help it. [:Y:] I'm not a tru oil fan. I haven't used it on a guitar, but didn't like the way it looked, felt or smelled on scrap. Like most things guitar, there's more than one way to do things, and opinions vary.
Author:  matthewrust [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
Thanks Woody! Or maybe I can just go around shirtless.
Author:  Mike R [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
Well, I got shot down on a previous post for speaking out against Truoil, but I have to repeat myself again. The argument for Truoil, is that it's easy to apply and can be done inside. Not everyone out there has a spraying system and can apply nitro. Nitro is harder than oil. That is a fact. If you can use nitro, use it. But if you are building a guitar in your apartment or bedroom, don't try nitro. But you can use the french polish method. It takes more skill and more time, but it is a proven method. There are lot's of violins out there with french polish on them, and they look great. I have to agree with John on this one. I have thirty years of expierence with finishing, and I use nitro on everything I build. And it is not that hard to work with. But you need the proper enviroment to apply it in. Be safe!!! (cough, cough)
Mike R
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
Tru-oil works, and even though it's technically not, it behaves much like an oil varnish. For guitars I think there are better products with faster build, more solid contents and better look, like Behlen Rockhard, Pratt & Lambert #38, Ace Interior varnish and probably a few others.
I brushed my first 12 guitars, once the technique is learned, it's relatively easy and gives consistent results.
For some rosewoods a seal coat of shellac will provide a good barrier for varnish to dry properly.
Author:  george wilson [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
I will repeat my experience of having a violin I made and tried Tru Oil on. The violin looked very nice,and I had rubbed the finish. It was hanging in the shop for some months before I strung it. Sometime after I strung it,I noticed that the bridge's feet had sunk right down to the bare wood through the Tru Oil finish. I had to remove it and refinish the violin in a more traditional oil based varnish.

After that,I was afraid that the finish would get printed inside a case,and never used Tru Oil again on an instrument.
Author:  Kim [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
I have to agree with Colin Symonds, Truoil is a great finish for a guitar but just like any finish you need to understand the product and refine the process to get good results. First of all it is important to understand that TruOil is no more an "Oil" finish than any other oil based varnish which rely upon oil driers to under go polymerisation in the presents of oxygen to harden. So it's an 'oil finish' only in name and it is best to keep that in mind when working with it, especially when it comes to the disposal of used rags as they present a very real fire hazard. Secondly, and this even goes for 'unsealed' spruce as well, truoil does not "penetrate deeply" despite what the label says. Rather it penetrates 'marginally' at best and then builds in film thickness with successive applications.

If you try to build the coat as you would varnish, ie following the instructions on the bottle for "gun-stocks", you will have problems. Rather you need to be a bit more patient in applying many very thin coats using a clean rag or paper towel each time to apply and then wiping off any excess immediately with another clean lint free cloth. It is almost a burnishing process but the coat will build. Eventual, depending upon how smooth the work piece had been sanded before you started, (unlike nitro, the finer the better but you want to finish sanding the bare wood to 'at least' 600 grit) the coat will build to a beautiful warm gloss and will harden out very well.

As a foot note: It is my advice not to use any oil based finish, including any regular oil based varnish, all of which rely upon a polymerisation process to cure, over any epoxy product unless the adverse reaction that 'epoxy amine blush' can have upon that process are very clearly understood. Google is your friend.

Cheers

Kim
Author:  MRS [ Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
I believe shellac coat will help with this over oily woods. I don't really know what the rave over this product is since it's basically a wiping varnish. You can make your own wiping varnish with standard varnish at much cheaper then what true oil cost.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 5:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
I think a lot depends on your expectations. If you want a tough, durable and hard coating then Tru-oil isn't going to provide it. It does not finish as hard as Behlens, nor does it seem as hard as the Pine resin varnish that I use. Durability is much harder to assess.
That doesn't mean that it's unsuitable as a guitar finish. Like a lot of oil finishes it will give a different visual appearance to that of Shellac. Having done side by side tests with Shellac and Oil I prefer the look of an oil finish/varnish.
Author:  John Hale [ Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truoil on an acoustic?
I have used tru-oil in my opinion it is one of the most attractive finishes, on my uke it had tru-oil body and neck and really looked the business and has stood nearly a years hard playing, my guitar fared less well I only tru-oiled the neck, but where I play in the first position mainly it's started to discolour now, the rest of the guitar was french polished. My observations with tru-oil is that you need to take the surface finish right up I used 2500 wet and dry paper after pore filling I used a dosen coat of oil applied with a paper towel and leave it a minimum of 2 weeks before polishing I found a slurry of walnut oil and rottenstone best
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/