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what is the best non animal based glue?
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Author:  arie [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  what is the best non animal based glue?
new to building here... what is the best and strongest non-animal glue out there to use for lutherie?

thanks
Author:  Alan [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
I like the LMI white glue.
Author:  Rod True [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
Many 10's of 1000's of guitars have been made with Titebond original. It's very easy to find and easy enough to use. It also depends (on some builders opinions) what opperation you are doing. But if you only could use one glue, titebond will get you there just fine.

Why are you not considering animal based glue?
Author:  arie [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
Rod True wrote:

Why are you not considering animal based glue?



Don't want to use animal glues because I'm a vegetarian....etc

I had thought about Titebond...what about Gorilla glue?

thanks for the replies!
Author:  Rod True [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
Cool,

You don't want to use polyurethane glue (gorilla etc...) for guitar building. Reason is you can't get any pieces apart in the future should you need to, too save the pieces that is. Besides, not to to easy to clean up the squeeze out either. It's good for gluing up laminated necks but that's about it for any guitar parts.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
I used titebond and have had very good sucess
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
I thought Gorilla Glue was, well, made out of ... just kidding.

LMI white glue is not animal based? Tightbond neither? If not, you are all set. I have found that LMI White glue is good where you may get a film on an exposed surface... it really sands down nicely. I think Tite Bond can be a bit messier. In any case, they both work great. We are talking about Tite Bond I & II, right? Not III.

I do not much care for Gorilla glue in instrument building.

Mike
Author:  Stephen Boone [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
My feeling is that there is a little more open time with titebond. This is especially important to me with the binding operation.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
Rod True wrote:
Many 10's of 1000's of guitars have been made with Titebond original.


Make sure you get Titebond Original and not the Titebond II or III. The Original has properties that most folks feel makes it more suitable for guitar making.
Author:  Lillian F-W [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
I know of a few builders that by Elmer's Wood Glue. I haven't used it myself, only because I can't find it around here. Titebond original for me.

These glues have a limited shelf life. Somewhere in the archives I think you will find Titebond's date code decryption key. Fresher is always better. Toss it if it gets older than a year or if it gets too cold. I forget what the magic number is, but it doesn't have to actually freeze for it to go bad. If you aren't sure if the glue has gotten too cold or not, test a bit by letting it dry. If it dries white and chalky looking, toss it.
Author:  peterm [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
arie wrote:
Rod True wrote:

Why are you not considering animal based glue?



Don't want to use animal glues because I'm a vegetarian....etc

I had thought about Titebond...what about Gorilla glue?

thanks for the replies!


Gorilla glue is no good... remember you~re a vegetarian. laughing6-hehe

Seriously, not good... you're better off with Titebond.
Author:  tommygoat [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
Quote:
Somewhere in the archives I think you will find Titebond's date code decryption key


I wrote this 'code' on my wall since they recently changed it. Thanks to the alert member that posted this earlier... couldn't find that post.

Code: A91018XXXX = America / 2009 / Oct, 18th

The letter is for country A = America / 9 = 2009 Year / Next is MMDD - Month and Day / XXXX = Batch Code
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
I prefer LMI white to Titebond. The same applieds with it drying chalky. If it shows any white residue at all upon drying it is not good. This is usually from the glue freezing at some point.

Do insects count? If so it is a bummer on shellac, that is some useful stuff.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
Vegitarians eat insects (accidently), we all do. Its just tougher for a cow to step into your mouth when you are asleep.

So, what are the chemical basis of LMI White Glue, Tite Bond Original, and Elmers White Glue? Not sure where I got that into my head, but I thought they were all derived from hides. Obviously, they are not.

Mike
Author:  Haans [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
Well, I'd rather eat HHG than polyvinyl acetate aliphatic resin emulsion synthetic polymer... wow7-eyes
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
You may want to consider Gorilla Wood Glue, it can be purchased at any of the home improvement big box stores. It dries clearer and harder than Titebond 1 and has a shorter open time. It's a very good wood glue.
Otherwise Titebond 1 is the standard, and most of those who don't use HHG tend to use LMI white.
Why not using HHG? Being vegetarian is one thing, but it's not like any animal is slaughtered with the purpose of making glue.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
...and, nobody is going to eat the guitar. ;)
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
I don't think Gorilla glue is a very good wood glue. It gets very, very little use in my shop.
It's short comings:
Expensive....pretty toxic.... likes/needs moisture to cure ( not wanted or available when building at 45% Rh) .... high viscosity makes approximation of parts hard.... high viscosity makes penetration into wood suspect ( I have done empirical tests against yellow glue and the yellow was better every time)....messy, hard to clean up, non water clean up, can't get off skin, etc.....tends to force parts apart when curing.... no gap filling strength...not much if any grab.

I do find some limited uses for it but with other glues that do a better job at about everything why bother.
Whats to like ? Good open time ( there are other glues with good open times. You can get titebond extend if you need more open time)
The one thing that is really great about the stuff is also one of it's down sides. The stuff is slicker than you know what on a door knob. I have used it on hard glue ups by myself in areas that are not super critical and not visable. Avoids that panic and crushing clamp pressure to get things to come together.
Anyway, I agree with the LMI white or titebond orginal recomendations.
Link
Author:  woody b [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
Laurnet was taling about Gorilla wood glue, which is a white glue, not the regular polyurethane Gorilla glue. I've never used it, but I've seen it in stores. I use HHG, but it's animal based, so it doesn't fit into the OP's request. If I wasn't going to use HHG I've probably just use Titebond.
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
Yes, Gorilla WOOD GLUE. It was recommended by Mike Collins, thanks again Mike.

And I repeat, it is an excellent wood glue. Faster set than TB1 but excellent tack. It releases with heat and moisture, same as TB1.

In any case I think guitar building requires the use of various adhesives, some glues are better than others for certain tasks and vice-versa.

I mainly use HHG, but I am not a purist, or a believer in vague psychoacoustic notions.
Author:  Edward Taylor [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
arie wrote:

Don't want to use animal glues because I'm a vegetarian....etc

I had thought about Titebond...what about Gorilla glue?

thanks for the replies!


Me too, and I wont use hide glue.
People have valid reasons for not wanting to use such products.
There are good alternatives anyways.
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
Yes I should have been clearer. I meant to say polyurethane glue. Gorilla is a brand name which has been synonymous with polyurethane but that is not a accurate way to talk about it. They have other glues such as what Laurent is referring to. So to be clear what Laurent is talking about is not a polyurethane glue. Sorry if I made things confusing.
Link
Author:  Sam Price [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
.......................
Author:  stan thomison [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
LMI white and Gorrila "wood". Any thing brown, I am beginning to hate green
Author:  arie [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: what is the best non animal based glue?
thanks for the replies everyone! you've all been very helpful.

[:Y:]
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