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Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=24145		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Paul Burner [ Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
I'm considering a semi last minute change to a build I'm doing and switching out to a rosewood bridge instead of ebony.

Because the binding, fingerboard, headstock overlay and other accents are ebony - I think the rosewood bridge would look out of place.

I have dye, and am wondering if I can dye a rosewood bridge to look black enough to match the other ebony on the guitar. (Purely for aesthetics)

Anyone done this?
Author:  woody b [ Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
I do it all the time. I use Brazilian Rosewood bridges on most of my builds. I dye them black if I'm using an Ebony FB.
I use the dye that Stew-Mac sells. I believe it's leather dye, that may be available elsewhere but it's easy (and quick) to get it from Stew-Mac
Author:  Paul Burner [ Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
Thanks Woody - Yep - I got the same dye from SM too.

I'm reading that Ebony has a higher damping factor than Rosewood - so I thought I'd try a Rosewood bridge.
Author:  MRS [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
I use artist oil colors that i thin with linseed oil.
Author:  L. Presnall [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
Clairol...really...the number escapes me at the moment...it's very black and much less expensive than the dyes from SM and LMI...
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
Does it also give it "Body"? laughing6-hehe
Author:  KeithM [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
No! but no more split ends
Author:  L. Presnall [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
Okay, so I bought it to cover the gray, but now I look like a gun barrel! :D
Author:  Brock Poling [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
I have never really experimented much with these dyes. For those of you who use this, are they color fast? Do they bleed at all when they are glued? (That would really suck to have it bleed on your top). Also, once they are applied, can you still sand and polish the wood without going through the color, or is the dye only on the surface.. I have thought about this very issue as well (I prefer BRW bridges) but occassionally want them black as coal.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
Another option is African blackwood, which is actually a rosewood. Usually heavier than BRW, so you might want to adjust for that. FWIW, I like ebony bridges on steel string guitars, sometimes.
Author:  MRS [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
Brock i don't stain the bottom of bridges or fingerboards. Artist colors and leather dye that stew mac sell are oil based so i believe it could impair adhesion of glues. Never actually experimented with this though. Just a thought that I have that it will. The dye does seem to sink into the wood and not just sit on the top. I have never had my fingers or hands stained from these dyed fingerboards and bridges after years of playing.
Author:  george wilson [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
I advise you to get some Orasol dye. These dyes are the most lightfast dyes in existence,as far as I know. They are used by museum conservators working on very expensive antiques. I use them. I picked up a lot of technology being at Williamsburg for 39 years.Google Orasol dyes. Be careful to not breathe the dry powder.

I do not think you will find the old fashioned dyes permanent as you would like. Orasol dyes have been arc light tested for many hours for fade resistance. They were developed in Germany for the automotive trade. I also use them for spraying sunburst finishes since the late 70's,and haven't had fading yet.
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
I wouldn't trade an ebony bridge for IRW... Why not just get a real ebony piece???
Author:  Paul Burner [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
Alain,

I started this thread because I have heard that ebony has more dampening of the sound/vibration on a top than say EIR or BRW. I wanted to experiment with a guitar that I am already in the midst of building and all other appointments are Ebony - so to keep the look consistent I would want to have the bridge look like Ebony but be EIR.

Just something I'd like to try if it is doable.
Author:  woody b [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
Alain Desforges wrote:
I wouldn't trade an ebony bridge for IRW... Why not just get a real ebony piece???



Tone!!!!!!! Ebony isn't very.........lively. Tap an Ebony bridge blank and then tap one that's IRW, or better yet Braz.

Obvoiusly Ebony works for alot of people on alot of guitars. It's just not my preference.


Brock, I've never had a problem with bleeding. I have the bridge ~90% completed and polished before dying it. I don't dye the bottom (obviously) but I sand it to fit the top after I've dyed it. I route my saddle slot after the bridge is on the guitar, and touch up there with a q-tip. I cover the top when I'm doing this.
Author:  Chuck [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
MRS wrote:
I use artist oil colors that i thin with linseed oil.

How long does it take for the linseed oil to dry? I once did a walnut gun stock in linseed oil and it took over a month for it to dry. Maybe I put to much oil on it or didn't rub enough of it off but I was sure surprised with how long it took to dry.
Chuck
Author:  MRS [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
Chuck wrote:
MRS wrote:
I use artist oil colors that i thin with linseed oil.

How long does it take for the linseed oil to dry? I once did a walnut gun stock in linseed oil and it took over a month for it to dry. Maybe I put to much oil on it or didn't rub enough of it off but I was sure surprised with how long it took to dry.
Chuck

I used boiled linseed oil which is not actually boiled but has additives that speed drying. I also added japan dryer which help speed up drying. Raw linseed takes for ever. It took about 2 days drying before i checked if it was dry to the touch. I wiped it on and into the wood with a rag and wiped off the excess after I let it soak in for a while.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
I use Indian Ink for ebonising, usually sealed with shellac. It might fade a little over a number of years but I don't really see that as being much of a problem. It's just not that difficult to restain if the top has already been well sealed with polish/varnish.
Author:  Clay S. [ Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
I much prefer African blackwood for bridges. I think it is the most musical of woods. Left natural it looks like a dark BRW. With a little bit of mineral or lintseed oil it turns jet black. As Arnt mentioned, it tends to be a little heavy, but that can be compensated for somewhat.And for bridge blanks (knife scales, turning squares) it is relatively cheap.
Author:  cphanna [ Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Can a rosewood bridge be dyed to look like ebony?
Just a few observations. First, about linseed oil and artist's colors (I have decades of experience with these): Artist's oil colors and artist's linseed oil will both dry very thoroughly, but you will need to let them dry for a while. They'll feel dry to the touch after a couple of days, but give them a week--ten days if you use them, just to be sure. Use turp or mineral spirits for a thinner. The pigments are extremely finely ground, and will penetrate more than you would imagine. Keep the gluing surface as free of the oil based materials as you can, but don't freak out if you get a smudge or two there. Give the bottom a light sanding after everything has thoroughly dried and you'll be fine. Raw linseed oil never really dries--it just becomes more or less solidified. Don't use it for this purpose. The alternative dyes that have been recommended sound very interesting, and I'm glad to have this information.

Now about bridges (about which I have VERY LITTLE experience): I made an ebony bridge for my classical many years ago, and years of string tension torqued the saddle forward and deformed the front wall of the saddle slot. I was advised by many experienced builders that this is a fairly frequent failure of ebony (especially with lightly made ebony bridges like mine) and they told me that rosewood is much more stable in this regard. I now have a rosewood blank for a replacement bridge, and I'll dye it black. Glad to know that many of you favor the tone of rosewood, too!

Thanks, everyone.
Patrick
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