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| Kremlin Airmix vs. Turbines http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23963 |
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| Author: | Danny R. Little [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Kremlin Airmix vs. Turbines |
I have been wanting to buy a turbine sprayer for a few years and have paid particular attention to the posts on the subject on the OLF. It was coming down to the new Apollo or the Fuji Q4. I went to some woodworking forums (I feel so dirty) and read that turbines are old news and that for higher atomization the Kremlin Airmix was the way to go. Has anyone had any experience with both products? I understand the minimum Kremlin Airmix system would be about $2,000. The Fuji Q4 with all the extras (whip hose, 3 extra tips, 3 cups, etc,) is about $1,100. Also, take into consideration that finishing is not at the top of my skill set. My list of priorities: 1. Great finish on guitars. 2. Ease of use/setup/clean-up. 3. Ability to use water based finishes. 4. Use on other woodwork projects. 5. Cost. 6. A somewhat perverse satisfaction from buying a "whip hose". Thanks Danny R. Little |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kremlin Airmix vs. Turbines |
Danny, I was asking myself the exact same question last year... There is a store here in Ottawa that carries the Kremlin line and I saw the Airmix system in action. Without a doubt, it is a fantastic set-up. However, you have to think that it's extremelly expensive, and unless you plan to finish guitars, day in, day out, it's probably way over-kill... If you spray cat polyester or something with a short pot life, you can wind up with an extremely espensive paper-weight in short order. I then started looking at the Fuji's. Another great machine, but again, I found the price to be prohibitive. Plus, you can only use if for painting/spraying finishes and whatnot... Again, it's a lot of money... I went the old compressor/gun route. I bought a (used) 60 gallon, 5HP Campbell for 450$ and then I started searching for guns. After a bit of hunting and asking around, I decided on a Walcom Genesi Geo HVLP. Here in Canada, they're worth around 700$, but I bought one on e-bay for 280$ US. So by the time the duties and taxes got through with me, I paid a hair over 400$ CAD. In all respects, this set-up is very good. The gun is fantastic and I can't fault it at all if something goes wrong. If I screw-up, I still have an expensive paper-weight, but at least the compressor should last me a very long time. Hope this helps. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kremlin Airmix vs. Turbines |
Alain, I am in the gun hunt also. Why did you go with HVLP conversion? (over conventional). Will any HVLP gun work on a standard compressor (assuming that you set the pressure right)? And how do you set yours up? I also have a myriad uses for my compressor other than spraying.  Mike |
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| Author: | Danny R. Little [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kremlin Airmix vs. Turbines |
Alain: In my case I have a compressor system in my shop for air nailers, die grinders, blow guns, and yes an HVLP gun. I want a separate finish system because: 1. I don't want to stop work in the shop when I am finishing a guitar or two. 2. I'm too lazy to physically move the compressor back and forth, while I complete a mult-day finish schedule. 3. I don't have a dedicated booth, but I do have an area that is semi-clean near the shop I can reserve for a couple of weeks now and then. 4. I'm told either system, turbine or airmix, conserves finish product significantly enough to give one a couple of year return on investment, with the high cost of premium finishes. 5. I could not maintain a consistent spray pattern and product/air mix between jobs and even during the same job with my compressor set up even after adding humidity control to my heated and air conditioned shop. 6. Performance out weighs -- to a point -- cost as a factor in my decision. From your knowledge about the airmix system, is the $2000 range about right? Danny R. Little |
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| Author: | David R White [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kremlin Airmix vs. Turbines |
Danny, my perspective as a first time spray finisher is as follows. I purchase the Fuji MiniMite 3 a few months back. I've finished two guitars in waterborne and it works great and is easy to use the first time. Based on the priorities you listed I would give it some consideration. |
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| Author: | Danny R. Little [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kremlin Airmix vs. Turbines |
Thanks Todd and David for posting. Todd, you mentioned the gravity feed gun. Is that what you prefer? Danny R. Little |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kremlin Airmix vs. Turbines |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Alain, I am in the gun hunt also. Why did you go with HVLP conversion? (over conventional). Will any HVLP gun work on a standard compressor (assuming that you set the pressure right)? And how do you set yours up? I also have a myriad uses for my compressor other than spraying. Mike Mike, sorry for the late reply... You know, that's a good question and I never really thought about it. They claim the gun is a true HVLP. I found that my gun hardly uses any finish... I just put a few inches in the bottom of the cup and I always have plenty left over... If I'm not mistaken, for nitro, I set the pressure at the gun to about 25 psi. The fan is about 3-4 inches wide when I'm 4-5 inches away... I have the 1.3mm cap... I have a few compressors and I find this gun works well even with my smaller portable unit... The compressor might start charging up more often, for sure, but I usually just wait a while and go again, not that it seems to make any difference. Possibly the regulator at the gun helps??? ... With my larger compressor, it's a non-issue... In the end, it was between the Walcom and the Iwata... I just found the Walcom sexier! Hope this helps, |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kremlin Airmix vs. Turbines |
Danny R. Little wrote: Alain: From your knowledge about the airmix system, is the $2000 range about right? Danny R. Little Danny, I can see why you don't need another compressor set-up... If I'm not mistaken, they wanted 2.5K for the Kremlin Airmix here in Ottawa... So that's in CAD (Canadian Tire money! lol) For sure, the Kremlin is too cool! I would have bought it had the bank been more permitting! Ha! Best, |
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