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Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
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Author:  Paul Burner [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
We're moving closer to winter here in Nebraska - and I need a heater.

Here's the details....

I have an uninsulated attached two-stall garage and use 1/2 of it for building. The "dirty" work is done in the garage, but gluing and other "clean" work is done in my basement as it is much more stable for humidity.

I'd like to find a propane or electric heater that would:

• Heat up the area (or objects) quickly. I'm only in the garage about 2-4 hours at a time (mostly in the evenings and some weekend days) and not that often - so I need the space to heat quickly.

• Efficiency would be nice - but again - since I'm only using it 2-4 hours at a time a couple times a week I guess that's not a HUGE concern - but...

• My natural gas line is very unavailable to the garage without a HUGE expense in getting a line run - and I'd rather not spend the money right now.

• It would be nice to not have to do some elaborate venting too. (That may be asking a lot - I know)

Ok - so I need some help, suggestions - and photos of your setup if possible.

Thanks!
Author:  Bailey [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
I had a shop like that a few years ago. I had a salamander jet kerosene heater (bought used at a garage sale for $40.00) that I needed to keep a window and the garage door half open to survive in the winter. NASTY! It would heat the place in a hurry....but I finally broke down and insulated the garage.
I then bought a 230 V electric (with thermostat control) fan heater from Grainger and suspended it from the ceiling. It will sufficiently heat a 24X30 (insulated) garage shop in winter...in Colorado....at 9000ft. Any heat will dry out your space....so a humidifier may be necessary too if you are working on moisture sensitive projects.
Kent Bailey
Author:  Mark Groza [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
A propane heater running off a bottle works great for part time service and it doesn't need a vent.It also heats up fast.I used one in my garage for awhile before i insulated and ran electric heat and woodstove.
Author:  Paul Burner [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
Mark,

I guess I'm looking for specifics of what type of propane heater you used.

Also - I tried the kerosene route last winter and almost gassed myself to death - it was NOT a good option.
Author:  Mark Groza [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
It was a mister heater type that sat on top of a 20LB. bottle of propane.i think it was 45,000 btu.
Author:  Mark Groza [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
Paul, I just took a pic of it. It's a coleman powermate 45,000 btu heater.
Author:  Ken C [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
Paul, I picked up a propane heater at Home Depot several years ago that I still use to heat my garage. It stands about 3 to 4 feet and sounds like a jet engine when running on high. I'd have to check the BTU's as I can't remember right now, but it will take the chill off the space rather quickly.

A couple of years ago I moved to house that has a large 4 car attached garage. This garage is insulated and dry walled, but not heated. I have debated about a getting a more permanent heating solution for it, but like you, I don't have much idea where to start.

Constantly heating and cooling in a humid environment can wreak havoc on the tools.

Ken
Author:  the Padma [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
6 ft, 220 v base board heater, with termostat mounted on a 6 ft 2 x 6...quick and dirty.

Yup propane heats up real good...but is an open flame in a wood shop...thats attached to your house dude...right on! Ask you insurance company what that translates to.
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
The ceiling mounted fan heater gets my vote for the safety issues. In this case Safety would be the #1 concern. If you can keep the area above freezing say in the mid 40's that may at least help . I keep my shop at 55 when I am not in it . 72 when I am in I have a forced air oil furnace with a humidifier attachment.
RH control is most important this time of year.
Author:  Ken C [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
Right you are, Padma. I usually fire it up to heat the place then turn it down or off if I make a lot of sawdust. But I do have good dust collection plus and an overhead filter, and I never leave the heater running unattended.

the Padma wrote:
6 ft, 220 v base board heater, with termostat mounted on a 6 ft 2 x 6...quick and dirty.

Yup propane heats up real good...but is an open flame in a wood shop...thats attached to your house dude...right on! Ask you insurance company what that translates to.
Author:  Pat Foster [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
Paul,

I have a simliar space, oversize one-car, insulated metal door and ceiling, which alone made a huge difference.

I keep major parts, plates, etc. in the basement in winter since our house has a humidifier in the central furnace, and take them to the garage for gluing.

I use a Mr. Heater Buddy 4,000/8,000 BTU with a hose going out to a 20 lb. propane cylinder. I run this with two circulating oil electrics to warm up the shop, then just the propane one. I use one of the electrics to keep it above freezing at night. The electric bill can get pretty high, so I try to use the Mr. Heater as much as possible. It's a little stinky, but not too bad, recommended for garage/shop use. I wouldn't use one in a tight building. If seal up the shop, I'll be going to a propane vent-free wallmount.

The Buddy is a great little heater, but a bit touchy. If you use a cylinder outside, with a hose to the heater, you'd really need a filter to keep the heater innards clean. Also it needs to be turned off at the tank, let the propane burn off, then turn off the heater. I didn't do this the first two winters and I had to replace some of the heater parts due to oil accumulation.

Pat
Author:  Darrel Friesen [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
With an uninsulated garage like yours, I'd likely go with an electric radiant heater or two like Lee Valley currently has on sale. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... 44047&ap=1 It only heats what it is pointing at and can keep your immendiate workspace very comfy.

Anyone using an unvented propane radiant or other type heater should ensure enough door/wall/window leaks or proper air intake to keep from producing CO.

I use a direct vented, overhead natural gas 60,000 BTU unit in my garage. It is well insulated though, including the door.
Author:  the Padma [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
Ok...for you guys who use and recommend open flame in a wood shop....

me got one question...ever see a dust explosion?

The fire ball only lasts a second or two...but you no got eye lashes or eyebrows left and your hair may be on fire.
Your lungs may be seared..depending if you were breathing in or out.
Although the fir ball she be gone...anything in the space that has a low flash point of ignition may now be in flames...that may include your clothing. oops_sign

you hearing what the words me layin down are sayin???

If you don't quite get this concept...go outside with a handfull of sawdust, hold a lit match or lighter at arms lenght about a foot under you fist with the sawdust...let the sawdust fall.

A flash dust fire is a pretty scary thing dudes.

However, you can heat your shop any way you wish.


Blessings
Author:  Kevin Gallagher [ Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
Paul,

I'd recommend strongly against anything that burns a fuel and produces a flame to heat your shop.
I've been really happy with the two radiant heaters mounted to my ceiling for the past two years. No
flame or danger of fire or explosion....and an explosion can occur in an environment that doesn't seem
nearly dusty enough to accommodate one.

The radiant heaters heat everything that is exposed to their beam. The heat is comfortable and doesn't
play the havoc on humidity like the open flame heat sources. Propane, and especially kerosene heaters
not only produce dangerous fumes and exhaust, but also consume all the air that you should be breathing
while you're in the shop. You can very quickly feel nauseous or light headed and end up with a terrible
headache for the rest of your work day after those few hours in the cold room.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
Author:  douglas ingram [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
I've spent more that enough time doing woodwork in a unheated shop during the winter. Didn't like it much.

Heating an uninsulated work space is a losing battle, anyway you look at it. The heat will get sucked away into the vastness outside faster than you can produce it.

If you are only working a couple of hours at time, and probably not every day either, then everything in your work space will be at ambient temperature. You will never heat your tools or materials to be warm enough during the time that you will be working with it.

All you can hope to do is to make yourself as comfortable as possible. Really good boots and task heating would be my first suggestions.

Also, if you can, try and work ahead, stocking up on the heavy "dirty"work now and lessen your future need.
Author:  JasonMoe [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
i'd say to get a tube style kerosene heater like a Nipko, portable jet engine heater. Run it so your garage is 75F+ toasty warm, then turn it off, then do your stuff for a few hours.
Author:  bluescreek [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
First off there is no such thing as cheap when it comes to heat. If you are going to do this , you should do it right . INSULATE , then plan for a heater . Anything that has an open flame is not a good idea. Electric units are good as you won't loose space for a fuel source . Propane and Kero are burners that need air and ventilation .
I think you will be happier in the long run . Dust explosions do happen and they can kill. Carbon monoxide is a slow silent killer and in the long run the insulated area will ad value , that is my 2 cents
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
Why would radiant heaters not be a fire hazard also? I have the same problem, no heat in my garage, but all is well insulated.

Mike
Author:  douglas ingram [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
Mike O'Melia wrote:
Why would radiant heaters not be a fire hazard also? I have the same problem, no heat in my garage, but all is well insulated.

Mike


No exposed flame.

I run a radiant heater, one of those overhead tubes. Running on natural gas (can also be outfitted for propane), it draws air directly from outside, through the heater, then exhausts it directly to the chimney stack. The flame is completely isolated from the shop air, plus there is no forced air currents blowing dust all over.

With electric especially, you have to consider how much time will be spent working there and what temperature to maintain the room. Electric heaters are slow. If you are working regularly, but not for long periods, it might be easier to keep the room at cool temp but still above freezing. Then you only have to raise the temp to a comfortable level. If you let the temp drop to well below freezing, then it takes a lot longer to bring the temp up, but if you are only working there from time to time, maybe that takes less energy that keeping the room at an inbetween temp.
Author:  Bailey [ Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
The Dayton commercial ceiling electric fan heater is the best thing I have found for a small garage shop. It's not that expensive and it has worked great for me for the past 10 years and I've moved it to 3 different shops.
As before mentioned...insulation will be the first solution to your heating issue. Just stick some batt insulation in and staple 4mil plastic over it until you can afford to drywall. The plastic will keep the dust from sticking to raw insulation and/or paper back.
Also...I find that electric heat elements don't suck the humidity out of a shop like flame heaters. Paying the electric bill for the first time will make you adjust temp according to use.

In your circumstance....I guess a propane bottle heater will put out the most BTUs for the buck in a uninsulated shop. Careful ventilation will be of constant concern.

I don't see the Dayton unit I have at Grainger. I did find a very similar brand/style...see link:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... 70_595_595
Kent Bailey
Author:  Paul Burner [ Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
Well, the temperature is dropping faster than I had expected... so....

Based on all the great input I received in this thread I went ahead and ordered the heater that Kent Bailey recommended. The online reviews were quite good (*mostly).

Here's the URL for what I ordered:

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... 70_595_595

I'll let you all know now it works once I get in installed and fired up.

Thanks again!
Author:  Darrel Friesen [ Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Heading to winter - need shop heater ideas
Just getting back to this thread. Padma is correct about running open flame in your workshop particularly if you tend to run dust clouds in the type of densities required for a dust explosion (beware of the spark from that circular saw). I should have been more specific. The one I run is direct vent, separated combustion chamber. Here's some good info on choosing a heater. http://www.ultimategarageheater.com/cho ... heater.php
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