Even doing repairs, I have to call myself a luthier in order to have my clients figure out what I do for a living... you know, the practical side of things.
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| Author: | the Padma [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Luthier or Technician |
. Luthier or Technician Which one are you? Luthier: WIkipedia: someone who makes or repairs stringed instruments. The word luthier comes from the French word luth which means "lute". The craft of lutherie is divided into two main categories: stringed instruments that are plucked or strummed, and those that are bowed. (see list below) Note it don't say nothing about 'lectrics. Les Paul (rest dude rest) hammered some frets into a 2 x 4, slapped on a pick up and well you know the rest. Did that make him a luthier? A technician, or an innovator? Hmm . Him gave birth to a whole new generation of stringed musical instruments....but me never ever heard him referred to as a luthier. Same thing with Leo Fender. These names are the icons of the electric guitar...yet they were not luthiers! Leo Fender was an electrical engineer and Les Paul was a musician. I think it was Chet Atkins who talked Gretch into adding a pickup. (anybody got the goods on this one) Me been chatting with "electric" builders on a few other sites, who have the audacity to consider themselves "luthiers." I consider them technicians. Yes there are some very fine techies out there. Waz the difference? Well an "old school" luthier if well trained should be able to make you just about any instrument you want, alls they needs to know is the string length (although most specialized in making a few instruments). So I ask a few of these techies that calls themselves "luthiers" ... me says, "Yo dude, wiz me up a 8 stringer bouzouki with a 30 11/32 inch string length, movable bridge and some humbuckers." "Sure" they say confidently..."Got the plans for it?' "No" me reply "Need plans man...gotta start some wheres," "Oh" me says. "and by the way, fret boards only come in 25.34, 24.562, and 25.5 inch scale lengths, unless you wanna go 34' which is only for basses." "I see." Me didn't have the heart to tell them that removing the first 2 frets from a 34 incher would work. So I asked about using one of them fret calculator programs and got this. "Ya guess that would work...but then how do you find the correct compensation? And by the way , whats a bouzookie?" Well I gave up at that point. Seems that unless the "Techie" has build a few hollow bodied instruments of any persuasion, they don't got a clue where to start other than perhaps look up some tuners and pickups in a Stew Mac catalog. But I think you dudes got the idea of were me going with this. Do we stop referring to electric builders as luthiers and acknowledge them as the true technicians that they are or we log on to Wikipedia and change the definition of "Luthier?' So whats the difference. Oh and by the way, what are you? A Luthier of Techie? Blessings the Padma Plucked or strummed instruments: autoharp, banjo, bouzouki, charango, cittern, appalachian dulcimer, guitar, harp, kantele, kithara, kora, koto, lute, theorbo, archlute, angelique, torban, kobza, bandura, lyre, pipa, mandolin, oud, shamisen, sitar, ukulele, and veena. Bowed instruments: cello, crwth, double bass, erhu, fiddle, mouthbow, nyckelharpa, hurdy gurdy, rabab, rebec, sarangi, viol, viola, viola da braccio, viola d'amore, viola da gamba and violin. Since bowed instruments require a bow, the second category includes a subtype known as an "archetier", a French word meaning one who makes bows.[2] While the division of luthiers into different categories may seem arbitrary, there are those who are passionate about the difference between these branches of the craft.[3][4] . |
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| Author: | SteveCourtright [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Pardon the sidestep - for what I do, as an amateur, I prefer "craftsman." I like your insightful story. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Jose Romanillos found the qualifications for a 'Master Luthier' in Spain (Toledo?) a couple of hundred years ago. You had to design and build a fancy guitar, and small harp, and a violin, without reference to any other drawings or specs but those you generated yourself. you had to do certain operations in the presence of other Masters, so you couldn't cheat. And, it all had to be done within a certain time, and meet quality standards. I make a lot of different kinds of stringed instruments, including violin family, harps, and guitars. I have also done my share of repair work. I call myself a 'luthier'. I don't know whether I'm a 'Master'; that's up the the other masters to decide. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
I'm a technican. I'm an ASE, and General Motors certified Master Automobile Technician. I also build and repair stringed instruments, mostly guitars. |
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| Author: | Edward Taylor [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Does it matter what people call themselves? I can call myself anything but it does not make me that... I think a luthier is someone others consider to be a luthier, not ones self. I do not think you have to be able to build more than one type of instrument to be considered one, and therefore why can an electric builder not be considered one? I dont know... seems like a lot of fuss over nothing. The instruments will speak for themselves. Just my humble opinion |
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| Author: | Christian Schmid [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
When I told a guitar playing buddy 1 1/2 years ago that I just started to build my first guitar, he said something along the lines of "So you're a luthier now!" When I see the work (and knowledge) of some of the members here on the board, I'd say "I'm an aspiring guitar builder." cheers, Christian |
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| Author: | celso [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Even doing repairs, I have to call myself a luthier in order to have my clients figure out what I do for a living... you know, the practical side of things.
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Padma you crack me up brother ... haha ... I took the word luthier off my cards years ago because everyone kept asking what that meant .... I just point now and say "I make these" ... much less confusion. |
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| Author: | John Platko [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Quote: Leo Fender was an electrical engineer Is that what Leo though of himself as? He seemed to do a fair amount of mechanical and industral engineering too. Did Leo come up with the shape of the Tele an Strat? Then he be one of the all time great design engineers too. |
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| Author: | MRS [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Electric guitars have strings as far as i know. And they are plucked. So they fall within the definition. I prefer the title Guitar Builder myself. Hang a shingle out front thats says luthier and people will be asking why are you advertising your religion? I think its a word that should have died a long time ago when the popularity of the lute faded. I work on all types of instruments including electric and acoustic so i technically can call myself one if i wanted. But i don't....Mike |
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| Author: | KMartin [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
I've debated this title thing quite a bit myself, especially since I lost my day job and am trying to make a business out of this field -- I think I could call myself a guitar builder, but I don't want to be limited by that. I've also done a mandolin, several violins, octave mandolins, and a bouzouki. My inclination is to try to educate the public on the meaning of the word luthier (which I note that the spell checker flags as incorrect here). I've argued the point with my wife, too. Kent |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Let me tell you.... People get some crazy ideas in their heads.... I met this fellow over at the local woodcraft store... I was buying a really nicely quartersawn Jatoba board to resaw for Sides for a future Guitar project... He was buying some Oak for a cabinet of some sort... "Nice board, what you working on" "Oh, this will make some Acoustic guitar sides if I ever get around to it" "Wow, you can make a Guitar out of Wood?" *?*?*...... "Well..... Yes" "So, you are a Luthier then.." "Well, no, I have built 1 guitar so far.... It is a new hobby." "Wow, a Luthier... I have this Guitar with a broken neck.... blah blah blah... Let me bring it to you to take a look at..." "Well... I don't actually know how to fix them... but I would love to see how it broke" *Sigh*.. He really did bring me his guitar... even though I told him I had no idea how to fix them... It was a nice Tacoma Jumbo (Washington, Pre-Fender). It had your typical Gibson headstock break.... Should have been bread and butter for an *Actual* luthier... but apparently no one locally wanted to fool with it ... and Fender only wanted to swap it out for a new Guild... He loved the guitar and just wants it fixed... Since it was a bolt on neck and he was a woodworker, I suggested the C&N book and told him that I could walk him through the process of making a Scarf joint neck if he wanted to take a crack at it himself... Showed him the "Neck" chapter in my C&N book and a neck I am working on to illustrate how the joints go... etc. and he is still calling me a "Luthier" .. even though I keep telling him to quit that... and Yes... Though it's not commonly known..... You can make a "Guitar" out of "Wood" Thanks John |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Yo, Paddie: What's up with this subject/object pronoun thing? I can see you got the definite article thing down. |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Howard Klepper wrote: Yo, Paddie: What's up with this subject/object pronoun thing? I can see you got the definite article thing down. Gee Howard, Me assume you be referring to me, the Padma with "Yo, Paddie" Well is like this...me liked watching Sesame Street. Cookie Monster ... well him the bestes.  Non the less, may I most humbly assure yourself Howard, of this ones ability to, intelligently communicate employing stimulating intercourse, dialogue, wit and parody, in a manner most appropriate and befitting of the Queens English as not only fundamentally conceivable but indubitably possible. However, prudence in verbal discourse tempered with discretionary humbleness of verbage choice, while confining ones self expression to the level of "latter 20th century street vernacular" on my behalf would unquestionably be far more expedient in getting the "jist of my drift" comprehended, would you not agree? Now YOU!. Yes YOU! ....the Padma must thank you for putting the idea of dove tails into me head. Knew me saw it some wheres once upon a time. Finally gotts to apply it to me NO NOthing build. Yay! You do nice and inspiring work. ![[clap]](./images/smilies/smiley32.gif "adulations") But then you already know that ... me just had to say it anyways, well cuz its true.Blessings the Padma |
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| Author: | caribou [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Hi, I hope my poor english could translate my mind about it... For me "Luthier" is a complete job, just like electrician, cook, surgeon or medecine man. Someone who had built one guitar, even really nice and well sounding, is not a luthier. He could be a learner but not a luthier. Someone who had build two or three guitars is not a luthier too. Someone who could repair somme broken necks or electronics is not a luthier. For me a luthier had experience, he built few instruments (they could be of the same type), at least ten; he could do ALL repair work on a stringed instrument (including violin and his family) and he must have a global understanding of the instruments "functioning". Personnally I waited 10 years to call myself as a luthier. It is about respect with more experienced luthiers. In France since few years there are some "auto-proclamed" luthiers who popping up there and there, that's not new but increasing last years. Some of them are very good guys who will certainly become "real" luthiers (but not yet), and a lot of guitar luthiers are from this "self-educated way" but some of them are "charlatans" (I don't know the english word  ) who make a real bad looking about the job.
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| Author: | MRS [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Has anyone here ever built a Lute? If so then maybe you can get away with calling yourself a Luthier. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Really Padma, you must learn to promulgate your esoteric cogitations, and state your superficial sentimentalities, utilizing a minimum of ponderous verbiage. |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Alan Carruth wrote: Really Padma, you must learn to promulgate your esoteric cogitations, and state your superficial sentimentalities, utilizing a minimum of ponderous verbiage. Alan Carruth wrote: Really Padma, you must learn to ..... MUST!? Alan, "Must" is a very strong word. Smacks of authoritarioaniszem. Alan, are you some sort of an authority or sumthing like that. I mean do you always take it upon self to tell people what they must do. And if I choose not to listen to your edict of what me "must" do, what pray tell would be the penelty of violation? A hundred lashes with some old bass strings or sumpthin like that? Further more Alan, I can understand you not appreciating or even comprehending my esotiric approch to luthierisme as you are a self procalmed "one demensionalist" And I find that sad, but non the less, I will accept and respect your self imposed limitations. However most humbly Allan, if you don't get off on me babble, I fully accord you the privilage to simply not read my posts. See. Simple soulution. End of problem. This way I may exersice my freedom of speach and you don't gotts to be overwhelmed by the mutie-dimensional awaking of an expanding consciouness approach to lutherieriszem while in communion with our bretheren via the writen word. ![[uncle]](./images/smilies/surrenderflagqv6.gif "Uncle") blessings the Padma Ps...you sure do make nice guitars Allan. |
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| Author: | Dave Fifield [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Easy! Luthiers use Mac's, Technicians use PC's......  Dave F. |
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| Author: | ChuckH [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
Padma, I like the way you think. I like how you stimulate my mind. Please keep up the good work for the cause. Hutch |
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| Author: | mrpbody442 [ Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
I am a Shaman Shamanism comprises a range of traditional beliefs and practices concerned with communication with the spirit world. A practitioner of shamanism is known as a shaman, pronounced /ˈʃɑːmən/, /ˈʃeɪmən/, (|ˈshämən; ˈshā-|) noun (pl. -man(s)).[2] There are many variations of shamanism throughout the world, but several common beliefs are shared by all forms of shamanism. Shamans are intermediaries between the human and spirit worlds. They can treat illness and are capable of entering supernatural realms to obtain answers to the problems of their community. That builds guitars |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
mrpbody442 wrote: I am a Shaman... That builds guitars Well you probably have lifted the lid right of off with that post. Good for you. So shaman, one must ask the question how you as self declaired shaman applies the mystical methodologies and practices to building? blessings the Padma |
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| Author: | mrpbody442 [ Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
As to steal from my friend Iggy Pop "Where is the soul" I try to apply the wisdom of the ancients to the children of tomorrow. In doing this and making music we are on a spiritual journey to unveil the mystic truths to mankind. Our job of the artist is a very critical and of utmost importance and transends zoot and perfect miters. |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
I don't think there is anything wrong with some strict definitions. One of my personal peeves is the word "art" being used for anything slightly creative. That is pretty much its informal use in our culture and I think it is a huge disservice to the Fine Arts. As to luthier, I don't like to call myself that as I recognize how much I don't know about every other form of instrument besides the acoustic guitar. Heck, I don't even know how to wire the pickups on an electric guitar! I don't have any problem reserving that title for someone whose skills include a whole body of different instruments. I'm not saying that I know what would qualify someone, but I do know that I feel I am not there. |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Luthier or Technician |
. Ok...just to play devils advocate here, I will respond to my own post. Oh! Techncians are we now! Is like this, me the Padma built him first 'lectric over 40 years ago. Since then me have built me fair shair of them, including making and spining my own coils and wireing. This may be the "Golden Age of Guitar Building", but the state of the Art is and has been 'lectrics for over half a century. And any of you still building acoustics, lutes, bouzookies and the like are way out in the prehistoric age of whats really goin down in the now. The musician wants to reach as many people as possible...that means amplification. And the best way is to 'lectrify. Nothing but nothin beats a gazillion megga watts of amplification shaking and reverberatin through the entire stadium. Go do that with a hollow body. Eveything changes! Including the art of Luthierizem. As such so should the definition of the term "luthier" change to reflect the reality of where its really all at. Luthiers vs Technicians? .....no just a bunch of diehard good old boy dina~sours livin in the past begrudging the cutting edge of luthierism. Luthiers vs Technicians?  blessings the Padma |
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