Hee, hee...just realized I said "imperial evidence".....minor bout of brain flatulence....
EDIT, EDIT, EDIT!
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| Nut string slots http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23882 |
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| Author: | Andy Zimmerman [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Nut string slots |
Hi I noticed a thread on another site and I saw a well known luthier give some info that might be a bit controversial. Do most of you cut you string slots in the nut so the string contacts the nut only at the fretboard end or does it contact the lower end of the slot from the fretboard end further back to the tuners. In other words, do you cut a slot that is angled somewhere between 0 and 15 degrees if you have a 15 degree headstock angle. (allowing contact all the way) just curious what most of you do |
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| Author: | Bill Greene [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
Hmmm, this is one of those questions that ultimately makes one wonder if you're doing it right, but what that luthier describes is what I was taught to do. String contacts the vast majority of the nut on the leading edge only, and the nut tapers down from there with no string contact. Will be interesting to hear the responses. Bill |
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| Author: | Jimmy Caldwell [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
Andy, I put the nut on the peghead, so mine are sloped. Both the top and bottom are angled to match the peghead angle (15 deg.). I do make sure that I angle the slots down towards the peghead a little more than 15 deg. so that the strings are contacting the front of the nut. It just helps from having intonation problems. I've seen a lot of guitars with incorrectly filed nuts that had intonation problems and the player and/or tech can't figure out why. It's one of the first things I look at if there's an intonation problem. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
I cut the slot approximately 1/2 the headstock angle to offer full contact over the width of the nut. Can't remember where I got the idea from though. David Collins maybe. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
I do angle the slot toward the headstock. I want to have the string contacting the slot all the way and not just at the fret board. This can cause premature wear and eventually buzzing. I also what the string to be free in the slot. If you can hear the string change tone as you wiggle the tuner , that is a good sign. If you have to tighten and then hear a sudden tonal change , this isn't good. |
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| Author: | Dave Stewart [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
I also do as Rod describes... slots are cut at about 1/2 the peghead angle. Just looked & Benedetto says cut the slots at "approx. 13 degrees" (His headstock pattern is 14 degrees, so he's implying between the included angles "so the open string doesn't buzz" .....but I can't slot to 1 degree tolerance!) |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
Not the same as a steel string, but I cut my slots in a rounded slope, so the string stays on the nut and is supported through the curve of the bend. I also try to angle the back edge of the slot, so the string is angled toward the tie point, while still being supported. |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
I follow the headstock angle with the nut top.And make sure the string has good back and forth movement through the nut. |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
I cut mine like Rod, and I dress the top of the nut down pretty slim. Pat Attachment: DSCN8192.jpg
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| Author: | Wes McMillian [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
1/2 the headstock angle here. Ensures the string bears on the fretboard end for proper intonation but also allows the nut the spread the load of the string all the way across its width, rather than having all the stress on the leading edge which could lead to premature wear. This is actually my main reason. Just makes sense to me from a structural, load bearing standpoint. Many would also argue that there is a tonal advantage, too, but I can't say I've ever done a direct nut swap on the same guitar to test this. To my pea brain, it only makes sense, though, that a more solid contact would be better for energy transfer "through" the neck, rather than being lost through the headstock. Yes, you want most of the string energy to be transferred directly to the bridge, but it would seem to me that any losses the other direction that can be captured and transferred through the neck is a good thing. Again, this is all conjecture and I have no imperial evidence of this, just following my own gut. We do, of course, know how much difference nut material can make so it would follow to assume nut design would have an impact, too. (Zero fret guitars aside.) |
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| Author: | martinedwards [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
1/2 the headstock angle here too. |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
1/2 the headstock angle. But I curve it downward slightly toward the headstock, and also widen the slots slightly toward the headstock. This, along with slightly oversizing the slot (relative to the string gauge) has helped me avoid sticking, squeaking strings. I also aim the slot a bit toward the tuner that string is going to, rather than making the slots all perpendicular to the nut. If anyone else has any other tips for the fine points of making squeak-free nut slots, I'd love to hear them. |
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| Author: | Wes McMillian [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
Hee, hee...just realized I said "imperial evidence".....minor bout of brain flatulence.... EDIT, EDIT, EDIT!
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
Most of us probably didn't notice! 
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
Most builders that I've seen guitars from have their nut slots cut to match the headstock angle which achieves exactly the result that I shoot for when cutting my nut slots. Since the tuner post with the string wrapped on it allows the string to terminate anywhere from 1/8" to 1/4" off of the headstock angel, the string will obviously make contact with only the front or fingerboard edge of the nut and rise away from the bottom of the nut slot as it approaches the post. I also cut the top of my nuts fairly narrow so that the length of any given nut sot is less than 3/16". Load bearing consideration across such a narrow landing is moot since my method may allow contact between the string and nut across half of the nut width or about 3/32". I like the strings to sit freely in the slots, but to be securely held in their respective coarses as they enter the at the fingerboard side. No pinging or popping as you tune, no jumpy tuning intervals, just smooth accurate tuning of the open notes with even the smallest tuner adjustment. Contact between the strings and the entire width of the nut will create more damping and muting of the notes played. Tapering the slots away from the strings in all directions allows for free resonance of the strings while eliminating the possibility of buzzing behind the contact area. I've played lots of Benedetto built guitars and spent lots of time in Bob's shop while he was here in northeast PA and I can say that his slots were not cut to within a one degree tolerance either. They've always appeared to pretty closely follow the headstock angle which would, in turn, create the situation described above in which the string lifts off of the bottom of the nut slot quickly behind the front edge of fingerboard side of the nut as it approaches the tuner post. There's certainly no controversy when it comes to things like this since it's a matter of personal preference on the part of the individual builder involved. Do what ha proven itself to work for you and your tone and always be open to adjust what you use as the number of guitars you've built...or repaired....grows with time. I've built almost 500 acoustic guitars, thousands of electric guitars and have repaired and set up thousands since the 70s and have just come to the methods I use over those decades and as those guitars have crossed my benches. I've never had a problem with any sort of premature wear on the front edge of a nut because of the contact between it and the strings passing though it being minimized by my slot dressing technique and many have been out there being played regularly for three decades or more. If I find something that works better and produces better results, I'll change to it without question, hesitiation, or reservation. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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| Author: | Wes McMillian [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
Kevin, I accept that more sharply tapering away the nut so that it rides on the leading edge only may not be a problem. But do you see it as having any actual benefit over the 1/2 headstock angle method, where the string rides along the full path, still bearing on the leading edge. BTW, I also agree with tapering out the string slots on the headstock end for smooth tuning and to ward off any string buzz from behind the nut. |
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| Author: | npalen [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
Makes me wonder if anyone has tried cutting string slots in the nut with CNC. I'll probably be chastised for even mentioning it but that's okay since chastisation doesn't cost anything. (As long as there are no shipping and handling charges, that is) Why would one even consider doing such a silly thing? |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
Kevin, thanks for sharing your experience with us. Your description of how you do it will help me refine my method (even though I still may approach it a bit differently). |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
npalen wrote: Makes me wonder if anyone has tried cutting string slots in the nut with CNC. I'll probably be chastised for even mentioning it but that's okay since chastisation doesn't cost anything. (As long as there are no shipping and handling charges, that is) Why would one even consider doing such a silly thing? If your fretting and fingerboards are adequately consistent, why wouldn't you? The nut's a string guide, so it really is a 'spec' part minus adjustment for errors made elsewhere. |
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| Author: | npalen [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
One approach to CNC cutting would be setting the finished neck with frets in a fixture. Maybe cut the nut slot, press the nut in and then machine it in place. Hey, it's not any crazier than a Plek.......or is it? |
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| Author: | Dave Rickard [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Nut string slots |
npalen wrote: Hey, it's not any crazier than a Plek.......or is it? There you go teaching me new words. Plek= A machine for people that think technology can replace a skilled human. |
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