Ebony is the fretboard of choice and most want to match the bridge with the fretboard. On my last I used ebony fingeroard and rosewood bridge...looks fine to me
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| Why are bridges mostly Ebony? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23805 |
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| Author: | runamuck [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
Why is it on high-end guitars, more often than not, the bridge is ebony? What is the reason for not using another wood, comparable in toughness, but that has acoustic properties associated with tone woods? Honduran and Brazilian rosewoods come to mind. Heck even East Indian: it's good enough for the back and sides. ( I know that some people use EIRW for bridges but that they're generally used on less expensive, mid-range guitars and I also know that Braz. and Hond. Rosewoods are sometimes used but they are not the standard. Why?) Tradition? When I tap on a piece of ebony it doesn't ring like rosewoods do. Is that the ideal: a piece of wood that has 'neutral' acoustic properties? Is damping a positive attribute of a bridge? Are there possibly other woods that would be just as good or better but aren't used because of tradition? Do these various woods all impart discernable differences in timbre and resonance? Thanks for your help. I love this place. Jim |
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| Author: | Mitch Johnson [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
I've often wondered the same thing. IMO it's purely an aesthetic thing, as I think ebony is more "classy" looking, but I don't know that for sure. Rosewood definately rings and ebony nowhere near as much. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has built two guitars trying to make all things equal (I know hard to do), but one with an ebony bridge and fingerboard, and one with rosewood. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
I havent put ebony on in years ... it mostly braz ... if I need it to be dark, I use afr blkwood. |
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| Author: | rye_bear [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
Greetings, in my personal view ebony is only used for the look/tradition and if you look at a modern classical guitar such as a ziata or caldersmith witch both have carbon fiber lattice designs the idea is to have the top as light and as stiff as possible, so they use padauk for the bridge witch is also very stable and light, transferring the vibrations from the strings strait to the top with no deadening. Here is a link to a padauk bridge http://www.ziataguitars.com/index.php?m ... galwrapper |
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| Author: | 000lover [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
Ebony is the fretboard of choice and most want to match the bridge with the fretboard. On my last I used ebony fingeroard and rosewood bridge...looks fine to me
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
Classicals pretty much never use ebony .. its simply too heavy. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
For "Ebony" bridges I use Braz that's dyed black. Shhhh. don't tell anyone. I hadn't thought about African Blackwood. I love Ebony fingerboards, but not bridges. I do like the "matched" look though. |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
Does anyone have a source for BRW bridge blanks in Canada? The first guitar I built was a nylon string and I used ebony for the bridge. The basses are a little on the weak side. I'm don't know for sure if the bridge is contributing, but I'm going to change it.......... one day. Cheers, Danny |
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| Author: | runamuck [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
DannyV wrote: Does anyone have a source for BRW bridge blanks in Canada? The first guitar I built was a nylon string and I used ebony for the bridge. The basses are a little on the weak side. I'm don't know for sure if the bridge is contributing, but I'm going to change it.......... one day. Cheers, Danny Hi Danny, Let us know what happens when you change your bridge. Does any one know of a source for BRW bridge blanks in the US? |
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| Author: | Dave Fifield [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
runamuck wrote: (snip) Does any one know of a source for BRW bridge blanks in the US? Good luck there Jim. I recently did an extensive search for a classical brw bridge blank and found none. Lots of websites talk about them, but when asked, they simply don't have any. If by some miracle you do find some, please let us know! Cheers, Dave F. |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
I'm with Tony; I never use Ebony-except were the customer insists on it. There are many great woods for bridges. Ebony just happens to be traditional. It's also more prone to cracking than many other woods. Gilmer woods in Oregon sells Katalox (at last look)-it's dark(Rosewood dark) and very stable. www.gilmerwoods.com It's used by many guitar manufactures for f.b.s. http://www.cookwoods.com may have it also . Mike |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
DannyV wrote: The basses are a little on the weak side. I'm don't know for sure if the bridge is contributing, but I'm going to change it.......... one day. Cheers, Danny Might wanna try a wedge shape bridge for more bass...thats were the bass side is much wider providing more contact to the deck. Search around or perhpas someone here has more info on this concept. blessings the Padma |
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| Author: | runamuck [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
Dave Fifield wrote: runamuck wrote: (snip) Does any one know of a source for BRW bridge blanks in the US? Good luck there Jim. I recently did an extensive search for a classical brw bridge blank and found none. Lots of websites talk about them, but when asked, they simply don't have any. If by some miracle you do find some, please let us know! Cheers, Dave F. I made a couple calls to friends of mine who are, like me, furniture makers. One of those friends has a bit of brazilian and doesn't have a use for it. I'll have to take a look at it. I did find some on ebay today as well. There's a piece 36" long X 2" X 5", I believe. You might want to check into that.Good luck. Jim |
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| Author: | Wes McMillian [ Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
TonyKarol wrote: I havent put ebony on in years ... it mostly braz ... if I need it to be dark, I use afr blkwood. Another vote for African Blackwood here. Excellent bridge/fingerboard material. I used ABW on a recent OM I completed. Hard stuff! Nice ring to it. Speaking of which, anybody got a source? I'd sure like to get my hands on some more. |
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| Author: | MRS [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
woody b wrote: For "Ebony" bridges I use Braz that's dyed black. Shhhh. don't tell anyone. I hadn't thought about African Blackwood. I love Ebony fingerboards, but not bridges. I do like the "matched" look though. I have done the same with indian rosewood for fingerboards with leather dye. |
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| Author: | Haans [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
Ya know, I've often wondered about African blackwood. I have some and it rings like a bell, but weighs a ton. Not sure if I want to hang that much dead weight on a top. I've cut some into bridge blanks but never used it... |
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| Author: | Lars Rasmussen [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
I have switched from ebony to brw on some of my early guitars, and the change hasnt been dramatic, but I did find it improved the attack and response a bit. On a guitar as light as I build them today im shure the change would be more dramatic, but i tend to stay with the brw bridges. Lower damping and lower weight. Maybe the old guys at Martin felt that an ebony bridge improved the bass response? And what in fact happened was that it dampened the high end making the whole guitar 'feel' bassier? Also a heavy bridge would increase monopole i guess. I put up a little something in the classifieds section in case someone is interested in Brw. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
I used Cocobolo for my last classical bridge, and it was wonderful. It also rings like a bell, but is pretty heavy. My bridge ended up weighing in at about 21 -22 g. |
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| Author: | CWLiu [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
TonyKarol wrote: Classicals pretty much never use ebony .. its simply too heavy. I've seen only two classicals that have ebony bridges and they both sound quite boring to me. ABW is almost as dense but its sound is different. |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
From one of the several older similar discussions, some people argued that the ebony bridge can filter some of the treble steel string noise. On paper it sounds nice to seek max performance but in real, all that zing can be irritating. As for the weight, at least with a classical, anything can be made to work. The classical bridge seem to be more forgiving in terms of shape, even if they look the same, they actually vary by some healthy amount from maker to maker and school to school. If you can carve it to be light enough and still stiff enough, or help it from the interior, you are good to go even with African blackwood. I've used Brazilian that was heavier than water twice, one ended up at 20 grams and the other at 24. I wanted it heavier because the assembled guitar seemed too stiff. As for ebony, if one believes in matching damping, along the lines of Alan's posts, then ebony might work great in a classical where a cedar top and a brazilian back are used. The combo might sound harsh, but the ebony bridge could tam the trebles? This reminds me of a though I had a while ago: "if i'll ever find a Smallman forgotten at some concert, the first thing I'd do back home would be to replace that light padauk bridge with an extra heavy ebony chunk" 
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
You'd probably have to replace the top to get the bridge off. Pretty thin Cedar, under that bridge. Wouldn't be much room for error. |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
One excellent rosewood alternative to ebony is bois de rose. When fresh it is a wild purple but it oxidizes to 95% black, definitively beats even the darkest Brazilian. |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
I think most high-end guitars with matching ebony fingerboards and bridges look better that way.I like the bridge and finger boards to match on the ones i build as well.That could be the reason you see ebony alot.I plan on useing maple bridges with maple fingerboards for the same reason.I also plan on doing it with beech. |
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| Author: | Wes McMillian [ Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why are bridges mostly Ebony? |
Haans wrote: Ya know, I've often wondered about African blackwood. I have some and it rings like a bell, but weighs a ton. Not sure if I want to hang that much dead weight on a top. I've cut some into bridge blanks but never used it... Haans, this ABW bridge weighed in at 20-22 grams, best I recall (I don't have my notes with me). Wonder if we had the same species in hand? 
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