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was having a great productive day and then....
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23716		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  P@uL [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  was having a great productive day and then....
my dad knocked a cordless drill off a table and directly onto the inside of the top which i just finished bracing, sanding and gluing the x brace cap onto.
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its split the top on the inside along a couple grain lines. it also dented the top straight through the the front.

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now on top it doesn't look as bad as i thought it would. but it is a rather large raised up section and along were the top split on the back i am worried about it spreading through the rest of the top.

so my first course of action. after, swearing and beating the crap out of a punching bag for half an hour is. to take a burn in knife and steam the top from the inside to try and close up the cracks. raise the grain sand and do it all over again as many times as needed then fill whats left with ca. but will that solve my problem of the raised spot on top? next step in my mind would be to sand down the top but that could just open up to where it had split on the inside.

so other than to express my anger this thread is really only to ask is there any other way? what would you do to fix something like this ?
Author:  Colin S [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: was having a great productive day and then....
Firstly, don't Panic!

Secondly, do not put CA glue anywhere near it as this will soak into the top and cause a nasty yellow stain. Then place a damp piece of kitchen paper onto the dent on the inside and use a heated iron to remove as much of the dent as possible, do this as many times as you need to, over a period. That is let the wood rest between steaming session. You may find that this will also reduce the 'bump' on the top surface. When you have reduced the dent as much as possible, give a light sanding then glue a diamond shaped spruce cleat on the inside as a reinforcement, preferably with HHG or if not just use your normal glue.

I've repaired much worse damage than this on some historic instruments this way, just work slowly and the damage should be invisible from the outside.

Colin
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: was having a great productive day and then....
Use a white paper towel , Sometime the color can bleed out. It does work. This is an old woodworkers trick.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: was having a great productive day and then....
Hi Paul

Bad luck dude, it looks like the top grain is hurt all the way through. I wonder if after steam on both sides you may have to add a cross grain patch on the inside to support the wood. If you use CA be careful it doesn't soak through to the outside of the top and cause staining. I wonder if some thinned Titebond or hide glue rubbed into the area might be better than CA.

Looking at the photo I assume that this is not under the pick guard.

Fred
Author:  MRS [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: was having a great productive day and then....
That sucks. This is why i learned to move all power tools away from the the instruments I'm working on. Especially the cordless drill since it very unbalanced and falls over easy. I never have done damage like this but i have scratched a few guitars before i learned my lesson.
Author:  P@uL [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: was having a great productive day and then....
okay so basically steam the inside a few times. wait to see how it settles. no ca, ill just use titebond. and probably throw another diamond cleat on that spot. and no Fred sadly it is not. and i was planning on using a clear pick guard like on my first anyway. i just really hope that it does not open up on top and show the damage that is my biggest fear.

keep the ideas coming if there are any im going to go give it a few steams. or possibly wait till tomorrow when i am settled down and had more time to think. probably just get started on carving the engleman double X'd top for the rest of the night. thanks guys
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: was having a great productive day and then....
Some times a nights rest helps when dealing with a problem. I walk away for a while and calm down before facing a problem. If you are not happy with the results of the repair make a new top, it is easier to do now than replacing one later.

Have you bent the Bubinga sides yet?

Fred
Author:  Edward Taylor [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: was having a great productive day and then....
Yikes! This is just a thought but, what about steaming it really good then using a couple of those really strong magnets, ones with decent surface area so there would not be any dents or anything, to clamp it together and leave it to dry out like that.
Author:  P@uL [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: was having a great productive day and then....
oh god no don't get me worrying about other stuff already. i still need to get my bending machine in working order and test bend my sides from stew mac first.and yeah i know the worst that happens is i start a new top. but i mean i gotta start a new top! oh well things cant always go perfect. i have a feeling i will be able to fix this. and learn from it.

*edit: and Ed that sounds like an ok idea. it would almost be like bending sides but to a much less extent. heat and water to make the wood ply able then have it clamped up somehow maybe just a caul on the bottom and one on top and then clamp it in my go board deck or with a couple cam clamps or whatever would help it dry and set in place. like leaving your sides in the press to cool and dry before taking them out and getting less spring back
Author:  Edward Taylor [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: was having a great productive day and then....
Yeah, and then hopefully just a light sanding to level and reinforce it on the inside. It sounds good in theory.
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: was having a great productive day and then....
I'd also check to make sure the braces didn't separate a bit from the top from the impact. Probably fine but worth a look.
Author:  Pat Foster [ Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: was having a great productive day and then....
What Colin and Fred said. It will look fine.

I was in Rick Davis' shop when he and Cat Fox graciously hosted a get together a few years ago. There was NOTHING above the bench where he worked on guitars. I expect there was a hard lesson in that for him and now I do the same. I did manage to knock a small hanging jig down onto the top binding of an assembled body but the hard binding barely took a mark. Too close for comfort.

Pat
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