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Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23660		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Paul Burner [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
I have a female "customer" that I like to call "cosmic Amy" or "crazy Amy". She's a little off the wall, but I love her dearly. She is a part of my church small group and I've known her for years.

She plays a little guitar, and her husband wants to surprise her by having me build her a guitar. Her husband knows nothing of guitars other than they have stings.... and I bet he doesn't really even know how many.

Well... as you can imagine, this is a rather daunting task as I can't ask her what she wants.

I've cooked up a little lie (LOL) and I've told her that one of my customers was so happy with the guitar I built him that he want to surprise his wife with one. I've been pumping the ladies in my small group with guitar related questions to get the "female perspective" (so I told them). This is so I can pump Amy for info and not look suspicious.

Amy is a pretty inexperienced guitar player and owns a 70s Martin D-28 and likes the sound of Rosewood.

After a lengthy discussion with her, I think she would like a guitar that has a Rosewood-ish sound to it, but not necessarily be Indian Rosewood. She just wants it to play easy and sound good and look exciting. Believe it or not, for a woman she has large hands - which is nice - but I think the Martin neck is a bit to "chunky" for her. I've actually thought of trying a Manzer wedge shape as I think she would really like it.

So.... What wood options are there that would be in the same family of sound as Indian Rosewood?

I have seen some nice Cocobolo, in fact I've been showing the ladies of my small group some wood photos online, and Amy noticed one of the Coco sets and a set of Hormigo of Bob C's, however, I'm a little nervous to work with Cocobolo because of the skin irritation issues.

Looking forward to your comments.
Author:  RaymundH [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
Paul,

If she likes things that are "a bit different" you could take a serious look at osage orange as many respected luthiers claim it has a braz like tap tone.

Come to think about it you can follow an amazing pictorial build by TM utilizing this species.

http://s561.photobucket.com/albums/ss53 ... ?start=all

Just a thought...Good luck...

Ray
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
Granadillo has a nice tap tone, somewhere between EIR and BRW. It is also has a very pretty grain and is relatively cheap. What's not to like!
Author:  Christian Schmid [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
How about really red bloodwood back/sides for the female touch and something different? Here are some pics and a sound clip: http://mustapickguitars.com/arena/2/index.php
Christian
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
I'd build with a wood you are familiar with. That will give you your best chance of a good instrument. If you have used Rosewood before I'd use it for this one. There is a lot of variation in how EIRW looks. Look at her Martin and use something that looks different. Tell her it is special sub-species. You've told one lie, the second will come a lot easier!
TJK
Author:  Flori F. [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
Paul,

In my brief experience, it seems ladies love small bodied instruments (OO or L-O style). If you make a small body with an armrest, the comfort level is pretty amazing. Then again, Sheryl Crowe and Anni DiFranco play jumbo's and dreads...so there goes that theory.

Personally, I haven't had any trouble with coco yet. I think it helps to take precautions. I wear latex (or similar) gloves and a respirator when sanding/scraping. And if my arms get covered in dust, I wash them off as soon as I can.

Best,

Flori
Author:  Paul Burner [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
Flori F. wrote:
Paul,

In my brief experience, it seems ladies love small bodied instruments (OO or L-O style).


Flori,

This is exactly what I thought... and had her play one of my smaller body guitars. She liked the neck - but I could tell that she preferred her larger guitar. I don't build dreadnaught guitars - so THAT will be change for her.
Author:  peterm [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
Paul,
in my opinion Ovangkol would make an awesome instrument. Very similar to IER in tone and even in grain. The color is pretty nice too. Works easy and its easy to get. A small guitar would do the trick for a girl like Flori suggested. Concentrate on getting a low profile neck.

I know you'll make a real nice one.
Author:  Christian Schmid [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
Quote:
Amy is a pretty inexperienced guitar player and owns a 70s Martin D-28 and likes the sound of Rosewood.


Paul, just a thought, but if she's inexperienced and owns a Rosewood D-28, it may very well be that she actually likes the dreadnought boominess (in combination with Spruce/Rosewood) and may not be quite happy with the sound of a small bodied guitar like a L-0.

Christian

Edit: Sorry, I somehow managed to miss the content of your last post :D
Author:  Alan [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
Flori F. wrote:
Paul,

In my brief experience, it seems ladies love small bodied instruments (OO or L-O style). If you make a small body with an armrest, the comfort level is pretty amazing. Then again, Sheryl Crowe and Anni DiFranco play jumbo's and dreads...so there goes that theory.

Personally, I haven't had any trouble with coco yet. I think it helps to take precautions. I wear latex (or similar) gloves and a respirator when sanding/scraping. And if my arms get covered in dust, I wash them off as soon as I can.

Best,

Flori



My daughter prefers the dreadnaught. I thought that she might find the OM easier to use, but she has returned to the dread.
Author:  cfmorrison [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
I've done some testing of various woods in the never ending search for an inexpensive and environmentally friendly replacement for Br. Rosewood. Just call me Don Quixote.

Wenge and Purpleheart seem the closest in density and tap tone (pitch) to EI Rosewood, at least the samples and sizes I've tested. Granadillo is also close and the grain looks more like EI Rosewood than the others. I don't think any of these are less expensive than EI Rosewood though, nor cause less environmental devastation when harvested.

While I have some of these woods in the shop, I haven't made any instruments with them (yet) so I'm really just speculating, which is fun and worth what you pay for it.
Author:  Rob Warren [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
I've heard Zebrawood described as similar to EIR. Won't really know until the one I've got in the works is done. I can tell you this, It's NOT easy to work with.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
There are lots of things that fall in the 'rosewood' class in density, stiffness, and damping. Indian is actually not the best of them, as it tends to have somewhat higher damping than many.

Osage can be a good match for Brazilian in properties, but I did get one set recently that's more like Indian. Quartered oak is nice; the damping is a bit higher than most rosewoods, but in a smaller guitar, like an OM or 000, it works well. I've also used it in one Jumbo that turned out nice. Another 'domestic' alternative is Black Locust, which has a sort of gold color, and can have attractive streaking. It's a little less dense than the average IRW, but the damping is similar, and it works very nicely.

There is a whole bucket of tropical woods that you could use. We've had some trouble bending bloodwood in the classes, but it has a nice tap tone and the density is good. Padauk is often available at reasonable prices, and it's got properties more like Brazilian than Indian. Sadly, it also tends to split, although I gather it's pretty stable once you've got things glued together. It bends well enough, but you do have to watch the heat, as it will darken. Morado/Pau Ferro/Bolivian rosewood is a good one. I've only made one guitar of it, but I use it a lot for bindings, bridges and so on. It bends well, it pretty tough, looks good, and has much smaller pores than most rosewoods, so it finishes nicely. Some folks seem to be allergic to it, but that's true of most tropical woods. Honduras rosewood is hard to get these days, but works well. I'm not impressed with the one set of Bubinga I worked with, but that could have been a fluke. I've never used Wenge myself, but a lot of the local makers have had problems with it cracking in sevice. New England is Guitar Hell, and you may not have the wild humidity swings we get, but still.... Another one I have not made a guitar from, but have used a lot for trim, is Macassar ebony, which should make a nice instrument judging by the properties, and sure can look great!n
Author:  Paul Burner [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
Flippo - I think you missed on almost all points there my friend. laughing6-hehe

1) She likes a rosewood sound - and likes the big box sound of her D-28 - so a parlor guitar would be a complete 180 from what she likes.

2) And mahogany isn't the deep "rosewood" family of sound I'm after.

If the guitar was for ME I'd look at a parlor, but it isn't and I'm trying to stay as safe as possible with the information I'm able to gather.
Author:  jlneng [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
I am allergic to everything and have had no reaction to Cocobolo. I have played quite a few cocobolo instruments which were stunning visually and also sounded great. The only pitfall to using same is the small headache of using epoxy in lieu of HHG,Titebond,or LMI white. I think that the sound of a coco/spruce top rivals that of BRW. I have read alot of conflicting information regarding allergies to woods. I would see how many people report reactions before deciding. Jose Oribe makes some of the finest guitars in the world, and cocobolo is his standard. JMHO.
Author:  Bobc [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
Paul I think the Hormigo will work great. It's a different look but has that Rosewood tone your after. Not difficult to bend, small pores. It's the wood of choice for marimbas too. [:Y:] I can give u a call.
give me a time. Image
Author:  Todd Rose [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
A "small jumbo", such as the OLF SJ, might be just the ticket.

Several good wood suggestions have been made. One more is palo escrito.
Author:  Jody [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
I dont think anyone mentioned american walnut,inexpensive, fairly easy to bend , has a tone somewhere between rosewood and mahogany, and it is possible to get some strong bass from a smaller instrument ... Jody
Author:  RaymundH [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
I know this topic started out as a "wood opinion" thread and has also grown to encompass shape and size as well sooo... I'll throw my $.02 in as well.

I recently strung up an Adi/Mahogony deep body (4.875") Gibson style L-00, complete with soundport, and baby if you want boom... It's the bee's knee's.

From a comfort level it's a fantastic instrument and as I mentioned above it was shockingly powerful... Dunno if it was the added depth (a la Nick Lucas), the Adi, or the soundport addition but I am pleasantly pleased.

Just my $.02

Ray
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
I forgot to mention myrtle/bay; can look great, works well, and sounds a lot like IRW.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Need suggestion for something similar in sound to EIR
Then there's ziricote (downside: kinda pricey for a nice set) and bocote (downside: hard to find quartersawn sets).

Al - I have yet to build a guitar with myrtle, and I don't recall having played one, either. I'm surprised to hear you say it sounds similar to IRW, though, because the tap tones, in my experience, are so drastically different. Not doubting your experience, just surprised.
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