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Cocobolo, right?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23647		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:41 am ]
Post subject:  Cocobolo, right?
This is a sort of rant-post about a wood dealer, but not sponsor. I bought a set of quartersawn Madagascar (a rarity), and contrary to the image, it came with an astronomic color mismatch between back and sides. Since I am a very nice person instead of returning or making a lot of fuss I sent a few photos to the seller and proposed I buy one more set if they cross-match it to the first one.
I insisted for a quartersawn back, or else I would bought the new sides only.

Today i receive the wood and while the sides are OK, the back, well, it seems to be cocobolo. Since they didn't find another QS Madagascar back in there (I wasn't really holding my breath for such a find), they just imagined cocobolo it's OK too. laughing6-hehe

So before I send them a really nasty email, I was wondering if you guys might comment on the pics below. Does it look like Madagascar or COcobolo. It does not smell (stink) at all like Madagascar, but has a wonderful strong fragance which puts Brazilian to shame. To balance things out, it has absolutely no tap tone. It is the king of cardboard. But maybe just because it is soaking wet!
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
Let me guess, this is Spanish vendor who's first initial is M? Sorry, I can't be sure about what kind of wood that is, though.
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
Coco has a smell for sure, Madrose as much, or at least what I have worked with, kinda looks like Granadillo, only a shade darker, But Granadillo has a wonderful taptone. Im not really sure what you have there.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
I dunno .. but that looks alot like mad rw to me .... its very dark to be cocobolo, too brown and not enough red, plus it has the tell tale long deep pores that i have found in mad rw too. I have had darker coco sets, and while they are not the typical brighter orange/red, they dont look like this either. Coco has such a strong distinctive smell to it, a spicy cinnamon like aroma, I wouldnt confuse it with mad rw .. it has a sweet smell too, but its not as strong IMO.

As far as the tap .. could be wet .. when madrw is dry it rings like a bell ...
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
One thing that matches Madrose well is the light yellowish thin lines between wider dark brown lines. I never handled cocobolo, but Amazon or Brazilian don't have them. The Madagascar types baroni graveana and maritima do have them.

The color is identical to some Amazon I have, but really different than the mad rose I have. I have a rather good collection of various subtypes of Madrose now and this one is pretty far off. Here is a new pic. The mystery back is wiped with shellac. It really has a lot of red in it compared to the usual madrose.

It is soaking wet. I hear it crackling all the time from drying. I cut a 20 gram sample and it already lost 0.4 grams in just a few hours. That is why I coated it heavily in shellac. Ends had no wax. It came with several crack at the outer edge on each half.
Author:  peterm [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
Without looking at it or smelling it its hard to tell. It looks a lot more like Madrose than Coco.

If I was to guess, madagascar would be my first choice.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
spicy, cinnamon...hmmm. It is definitly strong and spicy, certainly a rosewood smell, but not a perfect match to cinnamon.
Most madrose I have has a much weaker smell. Perhaps it goes away with aging and drying.
Author:  Colin S [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
It's Madagascan. It's a very variable wood from two different species. Some can be quite red.

Colin
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
Most important so far is that I didn't send a whining email to the seller. I don't mind looking like a goof in front of you guys, as long as I (or we) learn something.
Author:  CWLiu [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
I have some MadRW blanks and sets which are just like yours, and I seldom consider MadRW stink. I've read that there are several varieties of rosewoods in Madagascar. After all, it's a big island. I don't have cocobolo like this, or Amazon RW, BTW.
Author:  Flori F. [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
I have several sets of coco that look just like that. But as Lance said, Coco has a completely distinct smell. If the wood doesn't smell noticeably different from your mad rosewood samples, then it's probably not coco. The coco smell really comes up if you scrape/sand.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
Here is a pic with the Amazon on the right. Except for the closeup grain pattern, the colors are really close.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
I guess that I will buy a coco bridge blank and compare the smell, I have to order some stuff from LMI one of these days anyway.
Author:  truckjohn [ Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
Remember that many woods are highly variable in color from one board to the next. I have boards of Honduras RW that run from Black into Brown all the way through Red and then some that is a dead ringer for Mahogany with a light creamy coffee color.... and I have 1 curly Hon RW piece that you would swear is Bubinga with its pink and brown swirls... but its definitely Rosewood!

Just because all the pieces aren't an exact color and grain match don't mean they are not the right materials... just that they came from different boards. Colorful wood many times gets colors from minerals in the soil and water... so a tree growing a mile away can have very differently colored wood.

And the tap tone can sound kinda dead if it is a thin piece, or its damp or even if it has a small crack running down one edge... and you trim off or glue up the little crack at the edge and the tap tone comes alive. Look it over carefully for cracks, stick it up for a week or two and then check it again.

Good luck

John
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo, right?
I should add that while I was nice and ordered a second set instead of returning for rematch, they have been nice too and sent the second box for free. I also added some more stuff and they thrown in a bunch of veneer sheets for free (second quality but usable, a great bargain)

After doing more homework and digging up a bunch of cocobolo closeup images off google, I have to say I have been wrong and they do not resemble my stuff at all.

Sorry for the wild goose chase thread [uncle]
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