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| Glue Choice-Multi-Layer Fiber and Wood Headplate http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23628 |
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| Author: | Miketobey [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Glue Choice-Multi-Layer Fiber and Wood Headplate |
I am doing a custom headplate for a Gibson LP. The question has broader value. I am using LMII fiber and the the top is black dyed maple. B/W/B/W/B. All layers together are barely at 1/16th"-necessary to allow re-fitting the tuners. Today I did a layup and used Elmer's White glue because it dries clear. In spite of many clamps and two flat board cauls, the competing grain paths and water based glue have left me with a curling result. I need it to be flat so that I can inlay. I am considering epoxy;even though there will be some yellowing(this multi-layer plate will be scraped at a slight angle to reveal the layers as a simulation of binding). Before going to epoxy, I started to think about HHG(I realize it does not dry clear). Even though water based, I thought it might not induce curl because of how it hardens and because it dries so quickly. I have not used HHG but want to learn and if it would be a good choice here, this would be an easily set up project for an education. Please may I have your thoughts? Thank you, Mike T. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue Choice-Multi-Layer Fiber and Wood Headplate |
I think your basic plan is problematic. Exposing the laminations at an angle is not the way to go about achieving a multi-line purfling. If you are determined to proceed with your approach, epoxy would be the best for preventing curling. HHG has just as much water in it as white glue so you would probably get similar results. I am kind of surprised that the fiber curled on you. Are you using a full caul during glue-up? |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue Choice-Multi-Layer Fiber and Wood Headplate |
My experience doing various lay-ups of veneer and fiber, have shown that you have to give the glue time to dry completely. If the layers are clamped in some kind of caul, it takes a long time, sometimes several days for the glue to dry completely. Then the layers will stay flat. It certainly takes more than over night. |
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| Author: | Mike Lindstrom [ Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue Choice-Multi-Layer Fiber and Wood Headplate |
My first thought was epoxy, but that's not based on experience. With glue, Waddy's right. Leave it clamped with full cauls pretty much forever. Set it aside and come back to it in a week or two. It takes a long time for the moisture to get out of it. The wood can soak up the moisture and then dump it back into the laminations. Sounds potentially cool. One guy I know does his slotheads with about a million layers. It looks awesome after he carves the ramps. You might want to do some math to see just how far back you'll need to cut and at what angle to get the look you're imagining. Could you lose a layer to get a thicker top plate? Wait I just reread that? Did you say all 5 layers are 1/16" together? Can you even see the lines? Please put up some pictures when you're done. I'm intrigued. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue Choice-Multi-Layer Fiber and Wood Headplate |
Disclaimer: I haven't done this but it "should" work You need to clamp with a vacuum press. The vacuum will dry the moisture of the water based glue very quickly. I'd still leave it clamped for a long time, maybe 24 hours. Edit: I'll explain further. Extremely low pressure (vacuum) drastically lowers the boiling point of water, or any liquid. Vacuum is used to remove all of the moisture in AC and refridgeration systems. Moisture in an AC system will cause it to freeze. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue Choice-Multi-Layer Fiber and Wood Headplate |
I use titebond for all my glueups, unless its coco, then I use fish glue. If the layers all together are 1/16, glue it up and clamp it overnight, or possibly a couple days. it still might want to warp some, but my cure for that .. take an iron to it prior to gluing it onto the headstock. |
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| Author: | peterm [ Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue Choice-Multi-Layer Fiber and Wood Headplate |
I use Titebond in a vacuum bag. 20 minutes its all it takes. May need to use an iron at times like Tony but not always. |
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| Author: | Miketobey [ Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue Choice-Multi-Layer Fiber and Wood Headplate |
Thanks--I reclamped it right away and will let it sit for a few days-on top of my dehumidifier. On the HHG-yes, it, too, is water based, but doesn't it dry much more quickly and dries hard(stiff)-seems I recall people "sizing" veneers with HHG? I got the idea from a slotted headstock-good call. I am going to do another with epoxy-West system. This is a fun but challenging project- A Gibson "BFG" that the owner sanded down to bare, revealing beautiful curl. I am binding body, binding a new ebony fretboard with DePaule trapezoids inlaid and a MOP "Gibson" and the "holly" in the headplate. I may end up doing a traditional bound and mitered headstock. That 1/16th" is about max to retain tuner fit. I am also plugging the kill switch and selector holes with some curly maple I have. I am staining and filling back and neck and another fellow is doing the top and full nitro shoot. Thanks,-still, opinions on the HHG? Mike |
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| Author: | Bob Garrish [ Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Glue Choice-Multi-Layer Fiber and Wood Headplate |
I've used hide for this a few times and, as someone mentioned, the key is to leave the plates clamped a long time. In between cauls, and through wood, it takes a long time to dry. I usually wait a week. |
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