I ment Santa Cruz not Santa Fe.
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| Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23591 |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
Wonder what makes the Waverly tuner so much more expensive then the Grover sta-tite. Have never had either one in hand and am considering going to open back tuners. Just looking at the available pictures I can't see too much difference. Specs.mention nylon bushings as part of the gearing for the Waverlys but that's all I can find. Seems like a big price differance for such a small feature. Would sure appreciate feed back. Thanks Tom. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
I don't know what it is but to me the Grovers sure don't feel as tight as the Waves. Maybe it's those bushings. I believe the shaft is also thicker on the Waves though not plated gold on the gold sets. The Grovers are a good choice and I'm told the Santa Fe tuners too for the budget for sure but I really prefer the Waverlys when I can afford them. Their used on Martins so you can try them out the next time you are in a guitar shop that sales Martins. As for the buttons it only takes about 15 minutes to change them. But to make them ? It's definatly a place to save some money. Where are Grovers made? |
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| Author: | matthewrust [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
Martin does use Waverly tuners on some of their higher end special editions, but not all open back tuners on Martins are Waverly. I think they are made by Gotoh and stamped "Martin". Santa Cruz, on the other hand, does use Grover Sta-Tites that are stamped "Santa Cruz". The ONLY advantage of the Waverly tuners is that they are made in the USA and that actually means a lot to me when I am buying. So when I can afford it, I buy the Waves. Otherwise, the Grovers do more than enough to earn their keep. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
I ment Santa Cruz not Santa Fe.
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| Author: | Laurent Brondel [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
Price difference: Waverlies are made in the US, Sta-Tites and Gotoh oversea. With the Grovers and Waverlies, SM will replace any defective tuner at no cost, and I've had a few. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
It's worth mentioning too that both Waverlys and Grover (sta-tites) are easily interchangeable. I had read that this was the case here on the OLF some years ago but I had not had the opportunity to check this out for myself until a couple of weeks ago. I swapped out some beautiful Waverly open backs with snakewood knobs for some gold colored Grover's on a guitar that I set-up to be my own new player. The swap was very easy with only a careful and quick kiss with a reamer needed to be able to press the Grover bushing into the holes sized for the Waverlys. The Grover screws are smaller as well so I used the Waverly screws, same screws that were in the guitar, and ordered some replacement Waverly screws for the removed Waverly set. Personally IMHO both tuners are excellent tuners and if function is the priority for a price sensitive buyer the Grover's are a great value. Among players though many believe that Waverlys are superior and Waverlys do feel a bit smoother to me too. But $100+ smoother?  That's why I put Grover's on my new personal ax - I'm not worthy...
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
Not really a highjack - a slight nudge...  What about Gotohs? The open back version, I mean. The price seems to be just about in line with Grovers. I've used them, and have had no issues. I think I like the appearance of the Grovers a bit, better, though. Does anyone have a strong feeling about Grover open back tuners versus Gotohs? Thanks. |
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| Author: | John How [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
There is no comparison really. The Waves are nice and tight but smooth and the Grovers are the only tuners that have failed on my guitars. I know that SM will replace them but it's a pain and they are just not that nice. If you want a good quality open back tuner, try the Gotoh's for a medium price. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
I agree with John. To me the Grovers just don't feel good. It's like there's some backlash in them. There isn't any, at least that I can measure but it's like you have to.....sneak up when tuning. IMHO the open back Gotoh 510's are great, but I'll pass on the Grovers. |
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| Author: | Quine [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
I've used several types of grover open back tuners and never had a problem. They work fine and look good. I'm sure Waverly's are better but the cost...the COST!! My luthier hobby is money hemorraging enough without spending an extra $100 on tuners. You could always upgrade to better tuners if you want. Gotoh also makes open back tuners that are quite nice. Available at LMI |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
Is that string shaft end design also a difference? Mine are the newer ones, thanks for the heads up Todd. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
Grover did retool . To be honest , I do use both of them . The newer Grover design if a big improvement. I cannot see the value of Waverlies at that price. I will use the engraved Wav;s on high end commisions but the new 97's are great. Much tigher and a finer finish. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
Thanks for all the info and the pictures. Gather there were a first run type of Sta-tites and a new improved type. Won't spring for the Waverlys,not fussy about the straight shaft on the Gotohs. Sta-tites it's going to be. Thanks again. Tom. |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
westca wrote: Thanks for all the info and the pictures. Gather there were a first run type of Sta-tites and a new improved type. Won't spring for the Waverlys,not fussy about the straight shaft on the Gotohs. Sta-tites it's going to be. Thanks again. Tom. Tom, what do you mean about straight shaft? Are you talking about the string post? They are only straight on the ones that are used for slotheads, otherwise they are like the picture on the right that Todd posted. I sell Gotohs so I am always interested in what people think. The Greven I have has gotohs that I supplied. The next guitar he is sending will have grovers so I will get to see the difference. Thanks Shane |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
Shane: Thanks for the info . Stupid me was looking in the LMI catalog and looked at the slot-head type thinking they were the regular ones. And yes it was the string post I was talking about .Thanks for the correction. Tom. |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
westca wrote: Shane: Thanks for the info . Stupid me was looking in the LMI catalog and looked at the slot-head type thinking they were the regular ones. And yes it was the string post I was talking about .Thanks for the correction. Tom. Cool Tom, no stupid questions/observations here though, this is what it is all about! Thanks Shane |
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| Author: | Frank Cousins [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
ike many amateurs, I started this malarky with the intent building one guitar - just to give it a go... now i have a zoot collection that is growing and absorbing cash...hooke...line and sinker   Therefore when it came to tuners i went for teh best i could afford - Waverlys - and they are very nice, they just seem 'classier' if that's the word! I guess as well even if building for yourself as in my case - when you spend $$$ on decent wood, the hours on the build and finish I always thought what difference does and extra $40 make 
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
I don't think anyone is saying Waverlys aren't nice. I think we're just saying what an alternative is for those of us on a budget. It's hard to put tuners on a guitar that cost 1/3 of the total cost of a guitar and then there's a case to buy. If you trying to get $1000-$1500 for it you ain't making much. If you are selling it for $3000-$5000 then no problem. What pickup system are you looking for? 
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| Author: | Frank Cousins [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
Chris Paulick wrote: I don't think anyone is saying Waverlys aren't nice. I think we're just saying what an alternative is for those of us on a budget. It's hard to put tuners on a guitar that cost 1/3 of the total cost of a guitar and then there's a case to buy. If you trying to get $1000-$1500 for it you ain't making much. If you are selling it for $3000-$5000 then no problem. What pickup system are you looking for? I take your point - its easier decison for me as I have no intention of selling - its just for me and family etc.. but I can appreciate the flip side from a commercial perspective... Thing is though, I know here in the UK, they always list Waverlys when fitted as standard as a key selling point, as its sunominous with quality so from a marketing and building a reputation perspective, the up charge might be worth it? |
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| Author: | Frank Cousins [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
Todd Stock wrote: I wish Wavs were $40 extra... $90 more is closer to the mark. On Grover StaTite designation, the straight shaft tuners intended for slotheads are the H-97 (h = horizontal shaft); the V-97 is the standard paddle head tuner with pinched shaft (V = vertical shaft). Maybe its different here because of the price we pay and the exchnage rate: Waverleys nickel/ebony buttons form say StuMac at $118 = £71 Gotohs/Groovers we pay about £49-£55 so the differenceis only $40 Do have to add duty and shipping to a Stu Mac order, but when buying a load of stuff it does not make to much difference... |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
Frank Cousins wrote: Chris Paulick wrote: I know here in the UK, they always list Waverlys when fitted as standard as a key selling point, as its sunominous with qualityBut what are they asking for their guitars? I bought my Gibson J-45 nine years ago for $1300 and the first thing I did was put a set of Waverlys on it an through away those cheap Butter bean tuners that haven't changed design for 60+ years. There was Waverlys on my $2500 Martin ECOOO28. #734 . |
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| Author: | Frank Cousins [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
Chris Paulick wrote: Frank Cousins wrote: Chris Paulick wrote: I know here in the UK, they always list Waverlys when fitted as standard as a key selling point, as its sunominous with qualityBut what are they asking for their guitars? I bought my Gibson J-45 nine years ago for $1300 and the first thing I did was put a set of Waverlys on it an through away those cheap Butter bean tuners that haven't changed design for 60+ years. There was Waverlys on my $2500 Martin ECOOO28. #734 . Interestingly it varies - New D42s and that like dont have Waverlys, yet small uk makers who are selling at maybe half the D42 price at £1500 + do as standard or Gotoh 510s which also seem a popular choice. I dont know, its something about them... just seems classy especially when you get that nice box!
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
This forum really needs to let us edit for a longer time. Threw not Through. 
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| Author: | Allen McFarlen [ Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
I've used both the Gotoh, and Grover open backs and haven't been able to fault either of them. Not had a go with the Waverly's and when the nickel with ebony button is $160 AUD it's not likely to be any time soon. |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Waverlys versus Grover sta-tites |
I don't believe that the name Waverly is actually synonymous with quality, but more with overpriced than anything else. Enough people feel differently to keep them selling at those crazy prices though. Sure, the finish and button choices on the Waverly tuners are nice attraction points, but most players don't care enough about them to opt for them. I've never had a single failure on a Grover Sta-tite or Gotoh open backed tuning machine so they are a reasonable and acceptable choice for me any time. I'll grab the Waverly tuners if a customer insists on them, but always recommend the less expensive alternatives that provide equal quality and reliability. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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