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About baritone guitars
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23540		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  About baritone guitars
Hi all.

I never did a baritone guitar before and now a customer is inquiring about one. For what I've read, it doesn't seem to be much more than a longer scale lenght guitar (anywhere between 27" to 29" instead of the more standard 25ish). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I have a few questions:
- Is there a standard body shape for baritones? I assume jumbo is pretty standard. How about a dreadnought shape?
- Is string tension similar to a standard scale lenght? More? Less?
- Will a standard acoustic guitar case will do or do I have to buy a case specific for baritones?

Thanks a lot!
Author:  Steve Saville [ Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About baritone guitars
Alan,
For your first baritone try using a 27.5 scale on the OLF SJ. Use medium strings and don't tune it any higher than one whole step below standard. It works well a step and a half below, but any lower and the strings get too floppy. Larger gage strings are needed to go lower, but the you don't want to tune any higher than 1 and 1/2 steps below standard. You can tune 2 steps or more below, but it seems at that point you've reached the practical limit of that body to produce nice strong bass. A nice thing about going with that is that it will fit into a OLF Amertage case, unless your headplate is real long.
If you go with a dread shape, you should be able to support lower bass notes and use medium string tuned 2 or more steps below standard with a 28.5 or 29 scale length. You need to be able to calculate string tension to ensure that you don't put on too much force on the bridge and neck. I try to stay at or below medium string tension on a standard scale length. I also leave my tops and X braces a little thicker/taller.
I've built 4 baritones on the OLF platform. They've been very popular with the owners.
I trust you know how to change your bracing to accommodate the change in bridge placement.
Author:  Sondre [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About baritone guitars
Steve, or anyone... Do you tune the main air frequency of the box to a lower pitch on a baritone? Do you make the soundhole smaller? Thanks, and I'm sorry for the hijack...
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About baritone guitars
Thanks for your answers Steve.
Steve Saville wrote:
I trust you know how to change your bracing to accommodate the change in bridge placement.

I appreciate your trust in me, but I'm actually not sure what to do. I know I could shift everything down but it seems a bit simplistic. Maybe a combination of shifting down and closing the X braces a bit?

Any suggestion will be welcomed!
Author:  TonyKarol [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About baritone guitars
Just go for it ... use a jumbo or similar body .. I think the SJ is about as small as you can go .. the low frequencies need volume to work well - I dont build them much smaller than 16 3/8, although my twin neck guitar is built on a slope dread body, 15 1/2 wide, 21 long ... deep too, 4 3/4. It works really well with Daddarrio EXP23 baritone set on it, tuned B-B ... Tommy Emmanuel used in concert the last 3 nights here in Ontario (Ottawa and two nights in Toronto, last night's show was fantastic, he played Mr Bojangles on it) ..... KK pure western into the KK preamp, right into his rig .... it was killer.

Medium strings are ok is you tune in C to D area, C will be floppy, even on a 28.5 scale (I am currently using 28.44 as std). You need to rethink the bracing position based on where the bridge will sit. I am using a 90 degree X brace, top and brace sizes are pretty much normal for a typical jumbo.

Case wise, mine fits into a std jumbo case, or into my custom ameritage built for my Solo 6 string model ... the neck only gets about 2 inches longer. Most cases can handle that.
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About baritone guitars
Thanks Tony. I was hoping you would chip in!

TonyKarol wrote:
You need to rethink the bracing position based on where the bridge will sit.


So from a standard Martin Dreadnought bracing patern (which has an X brace a little wider than 90), should I simply shift everything down to accomodate the new bridge position? Or, as I mentioned, is it better to close the X angle a bit? Or a mix of both?

I'm afraid if I simply shift everything down that the X will be too far from the soundhole. And I wonder if it's going to be too far from the bridge if I just close the angle.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About baritone guitars
I generally dont worry about where the X crosses relative to the soundhole ... you need to support the bridge wings first .... work it out from there. If you keep a wider X angle, you will be wider at the bridge, needing a really wide bridge, and/or have to move the X further back. For me, 90 degrees works.
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About baritone guitars
TonyKarol wrote:
...and/or have to move the X further back.


That's what I ment by 'shifting down the bracing patern'.

Thanks a lot for your input! I appreciate it!

I guess I can start the design now!
Author:  woody b [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: About baritone guitars
Disclaimer: I've never built a baritone ( I played one once bliss )


My take on laying out the X brace. Make the X catch the wings of the bridge the way you want them to, and then put the upper ends of the X's a resonable distance from the upper face brace. Don't worry about the angle, or the distance from the soundhole. It works for me. YMMV
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: About baritone guitars
Well it turns out my customer needed his baritone for September, which is something I could do. He bought one elsewhere (already made I assume).

But thank ou very much for all the help. This will certainly be usefull eventually.

[:Y:]
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