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| Shaping the nut http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23539 |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Shaping the nut |
So, how to do? Sander? Grinder? Files? I saw a picture of Bruce Dickey's holder. Just not sure how its done. Thanks. (Maybe I missed it searching the forums) Mike |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Band saw, sander, files, sandpaper, slotting files, Micromesh, etc. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Hey! I actually have all of that in my shop! Thanks Waddy. Mike |
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| Author: | Frei [ Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
I just used 50 grit, but no more. I would like a table sander, that would be perfect. |
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| Author: | matthewrust [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
I am still amazed at some of the "essential" tools advertised by luthier supply shops for shaping nuts and saddles... Vises, crazy files, etc. If you have a decent tabletop belt sander, you can make a great looking nut in about 20 minutes. Sand it to 120 on the sander, use 400 or 600 to smooth things out, slot the nut while it is held on the neck by the pressure of the strings, get a good fit, remove and buff with mircomesh to get a glassy sheen, and glue it in with a tiny dot of white glue. Done. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Matt, It sounds to me like you "eye" the slot positions with the strings on. True? I agree with you on tool complexity. Everything has to be so darn expensive. Mike |
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| Author: | Frei [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Well, I would get the stewi mac string guage thing for spacing, thats a must, you cant really eye in all the nut strings, and you (apparently) need a knife edge to start them ...don't ask me how I know..  So just doing this recently, I would recomend that knife edge file also ,or a small starter saw. Im doing a classical and can get away with an xacto saw, but not for steel string, but at the rate Im building, thas next sumner. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
OK. Now, wht is the normal thickness of a nut for Martin guitars? And, if the current slot is not wide enough, where do you remove material? Face plate? Finger board? Mike |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
If you remove material from the fingerboard you're going to mess up the intonation, assuming it was right to start with. I believe Martin nuts are 1/4". I would make the nut fit instead of messing with the guitar. I use my belt sander to shape a nut, much like Matthew said. I've got a Stew-mac string spacing rule.....somewhere. I usually just measure spacing with my calipers. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
The nut on my Taylor 810 is 3/16. The nut space on the OM I am building is 1/8". The nut that John Hall sent me with the neck & fretboard is shaped and currently 1/4". So I should sand this to fit the 1/8" slot? There is no chance that the fretboard is fitted wrong, it had built in alignemnt pegs. All these questions relate to the fact that this is my first fitting. Thanks! Mike |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Assuming the distance from the end of the fingerboard is correct you can either sand the nut thinner or cut some off the headplate. Make my headplates too long and cut them for a 3/16" nut. I don't have any compelling reason why I use a 3/16" nut, it's just how I've always done it. I've got a little sled I use to send nuts (and saddles) through my drum sander. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Love to see a pic of the sled sometime. I got the nut in, am happy with it. Mike |
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| Author: | woody b [ Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Love to see a pic of the sled sometime. I got the nut in, am happy with it. Mike I'll try to snap a pic of it tomorrow. It's just a piece of plywood ~10" X 4" with a piece of binding glued on the end of it to help hold whatever small piece I'm sanding. For alot of small parts I use spray adhesive to help hold the piece to the sled. This makes a piece like a nut or saddle big enough to go through my Performax 10-20 sander without the sander "eating" it. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Drum Sander? I did not even think about that (much). Seemed too small of an object for that. So what you do is level both sides in the sander, and then thickness it? For tapering the top, do that by hand? Mike |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
I too use a sled to thickness the blank (piece of MDF with a small fence at one end, in front of a push handle as my sander has no power feed), only from one side .. flatten the other side on the jointer table with 280 grit. Thickness is just until its a tough fit, my slot is about 3/16, then final sand with some 280 and then 600, then take it to the buffer. I use the SM template to loacte the slots, adn then start them with a 3 sided tiny diamond file (www.bitlady.com .... she is at all the local wood/tool shows in Canada anyway) - 8 bucks. Slot with gauged files and go !!!! |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
One essential tool is Frank Ford's half pencil trick. Making new nuts with that little trick is so easy. Slide it across the first two frets and mark the blank, head over to the benchtop sander and in seconds it's half done. Leave a tiny bone above your marks. I have a buffer and white rouge to get it polished and ready to install. |
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| Author: | Frei [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
I could make a robo sander sled, but I am always worried about possible bio-hazard aspect of bone nuts. Are there any known issues with bio-hazard? Would soarking in Peroxide be a possible solution, or baking to a high temp? I don't want to spend an hour with the 50 grit next one... 
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Hydrogen Peroxide will bleach the bone nicely, without damaging it. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Bruce Dickey wrote: One essential tool is Frank Ford's half pencil trick. Making new nuts with that little trick is so easy. Slide it across the first two frets and mark the blank, head over to the benchtop sander and in seconds it's half done. Leave a tiny bone above your marks. I have a buffer and white rouge to get it polished and ready to install. I don't quite get waht you mean Waddy. Tony, thanks for the diamond blade tip... been looking for one (edit: can't find it) Mike |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Uh, hope you do not mind me interjecting my thread with this question: Reamers. Dang they are expensive! (need a pun here) Alternatives? Or just spend the $$? Need for bridge pins and end peg. 3 deg. Mike |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
I bought a Grizzly 3 degree and it didn't ream very well at all. Wasted $20. So I bought one from StewMac, it cuts good - nice tool. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Mike, you should spend some time over at FRETS.com. Frank Fords site. There's tons of info and tuts. there. I'm surprised that you can build those harp guitars and have questions about nuts? Every beginner needs to read over Franks Site first . That's where alot of us who aren't beginners have learned stuff from. And also the MIMF library. Though not current to date it's full of info. with the best coverage of Reso's although I might be partial to the metal Tricone costruction tut. 
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
I made some cardboard deflectors from old RC Tonewood boxes and set them just so around the TV...then I put the nut blank at the narrow end of the deflector arrangement...turned on the healthcare debate and came back an hour later, the nut was perfectly shaped and ready for slotting! ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") (It would require much more specific information content to slot the nut so I have to do that by hand until the politicos actually devise a detailed plan)!
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
no bother. I guess I am asking a lot of questions lately. Mike |
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| Author: | Alan [ Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shaping the nut |
Mike....sand a pencil lengthwise until it is to the lead (half a pencil, if that makes sense), then lay it with the flat side down on the fretboard and mark the nut. This will show approximately where the top of the nut will be. Then you can sand it almost to the line, cut the string slots, and then sand it down to the final shape. Hope that makes sense. If not, check out Frank Ford's website! |
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