hi all
I was wandering who among the “hand made” luthiers use the bolt on neck M&T joint as I was advised today that it was a “factory” technique and not really used by individual makers.
regards Geordie
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| Author: | Geordie Adams [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
hi all I was wandering who among the “hand made” luthiers use the bolt on neck M&T joint as I was advised today that it was a “factory” technique and not really used by individual makers. regards Geordie |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Geordie I would think that 95% of 'hand made' guitar makers (steel strings that is) use a bolt on neck nowadays. Colin |
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| Author: | Geordie Adams [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
hi Colin how are you ?, well I hope. I am aware of some, like yourself use it and that being the case I was curious how wide spread it is. I’m thinking of doing a steel string with that joint in fact I wouldn't mind a drawing of your elegant joint. regards Geordie |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Put me down for Dovetail . I can say that of the people that I know , 90% of them are dovetailers. To me it is a sign of tradition. I agree that M&T joints are fine structurally , but I still feel a dovetail is still the sign of a quality hand made instrument. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
I use dovetails. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
MandT bolt on. |
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| Author: | John Platko [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
bluescreek wrote: Put me down for Dovetail . I still feel a dovetail is still the sign of a quality hand made instrument. While I don't disagree with you, and I feel the same thing, and also use a dovetail, I suspect we may both be crazy. |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
bluescreek wrote: ...... but I still feel a dovetail is still the sign of a quality hand made instrument. I don't see how you can say that it is the sign. Perhaps a sign, but not the sign. Can you help me understand your POV? Thanks. |
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| Author: | StevenWheeler [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Geordie, I've used MandT bolt ons and flush bolt ons. My most recent is with Colin's design. My next will be Colin's design adapted to be adjustable. The way I see it, playability and sound should be paramount in guitar construction. Most will agree that a bolt on does not have an adverse affect on sound. The adjustable bolt on allows the player to keep the action in spec during seasonal changes in humidity and prevents the future expense of a neck reset. While I have the utmost respect for anyone who can do a proper dovetail, I don't understand sticking with the tradition. Steve |
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| Author: | sgtpepper [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
I use an M&T bolt-on joint. My necks are removable - you can't do that with a dovetail joint, unless you do that bolt-on as well. --Steve |
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| Author: | Andy Zimmerman [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Double M & T bolt on |
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| Author: | Brent Hutto [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Does using the dovetail depend in part to the target buyer for your guitars? It seems a must-have feature in some circles (f'rex Bluegrassers) and of no great import in others (most fingerstylists). |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
I so far have used dove tail joints but am open to other methods, no one can argue with the success Bob Taylor has had with bolt on necks, though his history is very short compared to Martin, and Gibson. I wonder if we will some day search out prewar ( Gulf War) Taylors like is done with many others. My only worry is will the neck remain solid to the body in 50 or more years though most of us won't be around then. Fred |
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| Author: | Kim [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Geordie Adams wrote: hi all I was advised today that it was a “factory” technique and not really used by individual makers. Just another throw away comment normally reserved for those who have absolutely no understanding at all of what they are talking about but read it somewhere and thought it sounded authorative enough to help them bluff their way though a legitimate conversation. You can find lots of these people behind the counters of music shops and on web sites like wikipedia where no verification of a statement is required and they are free to spread their assumptions about without fear of challenge. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Brent Hutto wrote: Does using the dovetail depend in part to the target buyer for your guitars? It seems a must-have feature in some circles (f'rex Bluegrassers) and of no great import in others (most fingerstylists). Mario Proulx has used bolt-ons and he is most respected among the BG crowd. I believe they're after volume and projection and Mario's guitars have those qualities in spades. Put me down in the M&T bolt-on category as well. |
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| Author: | BobK [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Double M&T bolt on for me too. |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
I've done both. I a use double tenon bolt on and plan to continue. A dovetail is more of an art form and implies a certain level of accomplishment in woodworking. I respect that but see everything to gain and nothing to lose from the bolt-on. Terry |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Todd Stock wrote: My eyes out at Healdburg assure me that the neck/body fit remains a problem for every builder. I use a bolt on as well, Todd, I dont understand your statement, "a problem for every builder" ? |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
I think that a properly set neck with a solid joint and great integrity are signs of a quality hand made instrument whether the joint used is a dovetail or a mortise and tenon bolt on joint. Both are of equal quality and provide and equal amount of integrity and there is no distinguishable tonal difference between the two. I use a mortise and tenon bolt on, but will do a dovetail if a customer insists on it for some reason. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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| Author: | Dave_E [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Bolt on here for steel strings. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") Dave |
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| Author: | MRS [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
I prefer dovetail joint. I guess its a traditional thing with me too. Do I think that it sounds better then a bolt on. No! I have played some beautiful sounding bolt ons. I like the beauty of the dovetail joint in its self. It's an amazing thing. 
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| Author: | Dave White [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Me - I'm a real "traditionalist" so use a butt joint and bang a nail through the neck block - two nails if it's a twelve string 
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Not enough nails, Dave. If you want to be a real traditionalist you have to use 3, just like in this fiddle by Andrea Guerneri from 1664.  
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| Author: | Dave White [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Arnt Rian wrote: Not enough nails, Dave. If you want to be a real traditionalist you have to use 3, just like in this fiddle by Andrea Guerneri from 1664. That Andrea huh . . . always ahead of his time and experimenting. He upset a lot of the old traditional one nailers back then. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: “hand made” luthiers dont do bolt on necks?? |
Arnt my friend do you have any idea as to the composition of these nails? I am wondering if the nails may be fossilized Mastiff poop because everyone knows that fossilized Mastiff Poop nails produce a superior sounding instrument. Of course they could be titanium too which is said to produce a superior sounding instrument as well. So very many choices - what's a Loothier to do? Inquiring minds want to know...  Geordie bro I use a bolt-on neck too but the real secret to my tone is the special, composite magic washers. I would tell you what they are made of but then I would have to kill myself... 
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