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Tell me about your return policy.
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23458		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Colby Horton [ Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Tell me about your return policy.
I am just wanting some advise on a return policy on a custom ordered guitar. I have made and sold several guitars without really thinking into a return policy very deeply. I have never had a customer even ask about returning a guitar. I was just thinking about it and decided I need to have a policy that the customer understands when they place their order. What brings it to mind is I have one customer that says there is a 50% chance that if he orders a guitar, he may want to return it. Just because he finds most quality handmade guitars still unsatisfactory. I am not afraid to build for the most demanding players, I just need them to understand how it will be on returns. So just let me know how it is with ya'll. I've been thinking about saying If you are unsatisfied you can return the guitar for a full refund minus 25% of the agreed price. I don't know, I just can't see myself saying you can get a full 100% refund. Because then the customer would have absolutely nothing to loose. Some may even order when they are not really sure if they even want one. Or just if they decided their money is tighter than it used to be. And then I'd have to try and sell the guitar somewhere to get my money out of it.
Thanks for any tips and info.
Author:  woody b [ Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tell me about your return policy.
This is from my website.

Quote:
I offer a 1 week inspection period after you receive your guitar. If there's a problem I want to work with you to fix it. If you still want to return the guitar I'll refund your money, excluding shipping cost and your initial deposit. You will be responsible for return shipping and insurance. The guitar must be returned in it's original condition, with the exception of strings. (changing strings won't cancel the return policy, some dealers do this) The deposit can go toward another guitar or if I sell your guitar for the original price I'll refund your deposit then. It's my belief that some people abuse return policies. This is my attempt to prevent such abuse. I've never had anyone want to return a guitar. Obviously if you buy a "spec" guitar, a prototype, or any guitar that doesn't require a deposit you'll receive a full refund, minus shipping cost.


There's alot of "tire kickers" out there in guitarland. I try to pick my customers/clients carefully, just like they pick builders carefully. I believe that a bad customer/client isn't going to be satisfied reguardless of what you send them. I also try to stay away from the "flippers". If someone has bought and then sold a bunch of guitars in the last year, even if they were cheap imports, they probably won't remain satisfied with a great guitar for more than a month or two. I hope I never see one of my guitars for sale used. I want my customers/clients to love the guitar I make them, and continue to for years to come.


My return policy is my own words. Feel free to copy it if you like it, or even tell me I'm full of mud if you think I am.
Author:  Rvsgtr [ Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tell me about your return policy.
Quote:
What brings it to mind is I have one customer that says there is a 50% chance that if he orders a guitar, he may want to return it. Just because he finds most quality handmade guitars still unsatisfactory


I personally would not build a custom order for this person. Maybe a stock model but not a custom build. My return policy is I will return their money, up to a full refund, depending on whether or not I can sell it and how much I can get for it. That is only fair I think. Custom orders are a different animal. Sometimes the best protection is to avoid a commissioned instrument if the buyer seems like a tough sell to begin with. I had one such experience with one person and was able to resell both guitars for more than they were worth when ordered. It was a situation just as mentioned where the buyer was a "tire-kicker" and traded guitars as often as changing underwear. I had a wierd vibe from this purchaser in the beginning. Wish I had went with my gut. Best of luck.
Author:  Colby Horton [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tell me about your return policy.
Thanks guys! Lots of good information here. Much appreciated :)
Author:  bluescreek [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tell me about your return policy.
I have a policy , 1/3 rd down non returnable at order , 1/3rd at delivery and 1/3 after 30 days. This allows the new owner a chance to play the guitar and time to check things out. After that it is paid in full.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tell me about your return policy.
Rvsgtr wrote:
........What brings it to mind is I have one customer that says there is a 50% chance that if he orders a guitar, he may want to return it. Just because he finds most quality handmade guitars still unsatisfactory........

If I was busy, I would not build for this person. If I had time on my schedule, and it seems that some of us do these days, I'd build something pretty generic. That way I could sell it easily or keep it as a demo. We could all use a good demo guitar. My written return policy is pretty clear. It would cost the client 24% plus shipping both directions plus any time and materials to modify personal items or damage after it leaves my shop. That assumes the client wants to return the guitar because of subjective reasons such as tone and playability. If it were being returned because of something I messed up on. I'd do it all at my cost.

Check my site if you'd like to read it -

http://saville_guitars.webs.com/commissionagreement.htm
Author:  truckjohn [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tell me about your return policy.
This request could come out of many different scenarios....

Here's one...

There are hundreds of "Custom Guitar Makers" that pop up every week... Some guy like Me building on the Kitchen table.... Turning out shoddy crap that can't stand up against a $179.99 Indiana... The guys at the local guitar store/repair shop are quite jaded... and love to regale me with tales of "Guitar makers!" who show up wanting to sell their newest wares to the Guitar shop....

Early in a maker's career... results can be fairly random... Some might sound great, others are duds. Just not enough experience to know why.... and so it is dangerous to pay for a commission on a potential dud and the guy may want an out.

In your case, this fellow may be looking for one heck of a deal through a "New Builder" ... and rightly has to turn away over 50% of them because they are out of whack or are just "Duds." Take the time to find out what he is after and why he finds them unacceptable.... Does he reject Kleppers and Karols and Arnolds and Taylors and Martins... or does he like to give the "New Guy" a shot -- to get a $4,000 guitar for $1,000.. and reject a bunch of those for obvious reasons like... it sounds like a coffee table with strings on it.

At least he has the decency to tell you in advance about his track record. It sounds like this guy has been through this before...

If you really feel the guy is open and honest with you.. and that he really does want to purchase a guitar.... feel him out a little and see if you can come up with a mutually beneficial agreement...

Good luck

John
Author:  Laurent Brondel [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tell me about your return policy.
My warranty/return policy is at the bottom of this page:
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/Site/Prices.html

If you have a website you should write a warranty policy.
For any commission work I would advise to write the specs of the guitar down (with your warranty/return policy pasted on it) and use it as an agreement, or contract, between you and the buyer, signed and dated by both parties.

And to reply to John: yes, there are guitar aficionados out there who buy/commission and then re-sell top-tier guitars regularly, without ever being 100% satisfied. Or rather, their satisfaction (usually intense) is short-term, and their need to move on takes over.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tell me about your return policy.
My policy is pretty simple, and I've been told I'm crazy. I take a 1/3 deposit and ship the guitar on that. If the person is not satisfied, they can return it within a reasonable time (a week, say), for a full refund so long as it's in good shape. This does not apply to really 'customized' instruments that would be hard to sell. It also doesn't apply to my 'R&D Specials', which are, as the name implies, experiments that I sell for half price with the understanding that the buyer can't refuse it. So far, no problems.

My thinking is simple: it's their money. If it's something I can sell down the road to somebody else, then it's not a problem for me. If somebody buys something from you, and they like it, they will tell their friends. If they don't like it, they will tell EVERYBODY. I sell by word of mouth, and I don't need that.

I've had a couple returned over the years. One clearly had problems that I didn't spot when I shipped it for various reasons. I was able to fix it, but the customer's circumstances had changed since he ordered it, and he needed the money more than the guitar. I sold it pretty quickly. The most recent one was simply not what the customer expected it would be. It probably could have been made to sound fine by simply changing the string type, but since he specified that as well as the sound, etc., I was sort of stuck. I probably should not have accepted that order.

It's a real bummer when things get returned. I've learned over the years to do a better job of weeding out the customers that are not going to be happy, no matter what, but you're never 100% effective at that. In the long run my policy has worked out well for me: it's one of the things that I think has gained me several repeat customers. Those are the best kind, and getting few of them makes it worth putting up with a lot of the other sort.
Author:  Jim_H [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tell me about your return policy.
Whatever the return policy is, I think the important thing is to have one, and make sure the customer is fully aware of it, especially one who is warning you that he is likely to return it.

I don't sell guitars and probably never will. I have however purchased a few. I think it's reasonable to expect the builder to keep some of the money for any instrument they sell new, just to compensate for your time. If not, you risk getting a reputation where people can commission a build, just to try it out, never really intending to pay for it.

I also think Al's comment about highly customized instruments requiring a unique purchase agreement, again made up front, is a valid one.
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