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| No Glue on End Pin? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23337 |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | No Glue on End Pin? |
Tradition (Martin) says don't glue the end pin. Is there a reason for that? Or am I wrong about not gluing it? Trust me, you won't be the first to point it out. |
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| Author: | Jimmy Caldwell [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
Several reasons. The end pin is tapered and a properly fitted one doesn't need any glue to stay in place. Because it's not glued in, you can take it out. Very important for shipping purposes. Tradition. I'm sure others can come up with a few more, but these are enough for me. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
I might be making a big mistake but I glued the last couple in. They fit in the case ok and I couldn't see any reason to take them out. (except maybe for a rebuff or finish work down the road?) |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
If your case has a cutout or recess for the end pin and you can not mash the end of the pin into the hard part of the case or lining when physically trying to move the body into the back of the case. Then you will be fine. however if there is any chance the pin can make contact at all with the inside of the case body if droped of bumped hard it is best to remove it. |
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| Author: | Jimmy Caldwell [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
Joe Beaver wrote: I might be making a big mistake but I glued the last couple in. They fit in the case ok and I couldn't see any reason to take them out. (except maybe for a rebuff or finish work down the road?) Joe, The problem with gluing the endpin in is that during shipping or even during the normal course of lugging the guitar around in it's case, a sharp blow to the end of the case can drive the endpin into the tailblock and split the tailblock. You don't want that. If these are for your own personal use and you're aware of the potential problem, then you're fine. If you're building guitars for sale, then I'd definitely leave the endpin unglued. Sorry if that wasn't clear from my original post. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
If you use a laminated tail block it won't likely cause any damage if dropped. I don't use tapered end pins. I've seen too many guitar messed up by a........"non guitar tech" trying to enlarge the hole to install a pickup/preamp. I normally get end pins from Larrivee that use a 1/2" hole. If a customer wants a wood end pin I make one that 1/2" and put a small dab of white glue on it. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
I do use a plywood tail block. The first one I glued in was because I over rimmed to pin hole. Nobody seemed to mind so I glued the next one also. I never thought about the possible trouble of pulling the pin for eclectic wiring if it is glued. I think I'll go back to no glue. |
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| Author: | Rvsgtr [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
I suggest always gluing the endpin for a "gigging" player. Just a tiny dot of elmers is fine and if you need to remove it later a dishtowel and pair of pliers with a slight twist will do the trick. Have done it many times. My main reason is not too long ago one of my guitars was about to be played at the Grand Ole Opry for the first time, he pulls it out of the case backstage and unknowingly the pin falls out and under something and LOST!! No "Reeves" guitar at the opry...that night. He didn't even realize 'til about 5 minutes before "showtime" and had to get his other axe. I shipped it to him in normal humidity conditions and this was on a cold Nashville weekend in December. Endpins will fall out due to weather changes. If you install it in the winter you may be okay but if that thing shrinks just a tiny bit it will fall out. I promise. I would always suggest taking them out to ship, however, as mentioned by others. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
Never and I mean Never glue in the end pin. You will understand when a guitar gets dropped during shipping or in a case  . I stopped using tapered pins a long time ago . I use a screw in pin or pic up. The pin is designed to be pulled for shipping. Of course you can have them sent to me to be repaired after the blocks are split along with the side.posting.php?mode=reply&f=10101&t=23337#
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| Author: | David Newton [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
You can build them tapered to be removable (I do) but in practice, the owner leaves them in from the moment they get the guitar, they stay in 24/7. I generally set my end pin to be a little proud of the base, so if they go to a dry place, they will have a little extra "push" left. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
I agree that most leaving them in 24/7. I don't believe I've ever seen a player pull his guitar out of the case, set the end pin and play. Maybe I just wasn't looking hard enough. I suppose if you are fedexing them having the pin out is a good idea. I know Martin does that. Interesting points on both sides. It is hard to overlook what Rvsgtr said about a gigging player. A loose pin could be a disaster. Joe |
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| Author: | MRS [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
How many here actually remove the endpin when they carrying their guitar in its case? I have never seen anyone do this. Never new you were supposed to do this. 
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
I have to agree with you MRS. When I think about it, it makes sense that since most people never remove the end pin, and if it takes a hit on it, I'd want the pin firmly glued in place. It would have less oppurtunity to be driven into the tailblock as a wedge if the glue holds. Without the glue it could easily split the block if it is solid material. I use baltic ply so I think it would fair better either way. Maybe glued in is the way to go. Joe |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
The fact is ,the pin glued in or not will split the end block when dropped . The glue will shear and the taper will wedge the block. Most of the martin end pins are plastic so glue won't stick anyway. The only way to avoid a split is to remove all tapered pins. It is rare that it happens but when it does it can be a disaster. One note ,If shipped and it splits , UPS and other shippers are now checking to see if the pin was pulled . If not . you are on your own. |
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| Author: | David Newton [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
I'm going to give away one of my super-secrets, from back in the day I did lots of violin repairs. Once the tapered hole is cut, I seal the end grain with shellac. I then prep the taper on my wood end pins, and the tapered hole, with a WEAK rosin solution. Violin rosin dissolved in alcohol. Once the customer gets his guitar, shipped with the end pin removed, and sets the end pin in place, the rosin sort of grips it, but not with a glue-like permanency, and keeps it from falling out if the RH changes. I hope. |
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| Author: | MRS [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
Another thing to take in consideration these days with endpins is many are now also the jack input because of built in electronics and they don't remove. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
Mrs, Good point about the jack endpins. I don't think they are as bad as a tapered Pin. The straight ones don't have the same 'wedge' efect. David, Rosin on the pins and the hole sounds like a good idea if you are not going to glue the pin in. The only guitar I ever dropped was a classical I was refinishing. The nail came out of the ceiling and the guitar hit the concrete 6' below. No end pin but it wasn't needed to slit the sides from the endblook to the neck block. Then it bounced into the air and landed on the head stock splitting off one of the ears. It was not a good day, and all without the help of an end pin. Joe |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
Joe: A while back someone did a DIY pickup installation on one of my guitars.There had been a tapered end pin,they drilled a hole for an endpin jack and it did not turn out to well.Since then I have used the endpin jacks on all subsequent guitars. A bit pricier but I like them better for looks ,function and beat the DIYers to the punch. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
westca I might look into that. What pins do you use? Do they only come in metal finishes? Thanks, Joe |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
Joe: I use the LMI endpin jack #EBJB.They are sort of a buffed copper tone.I think they look nice and are unobtrusive. Good luck.Tom. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No Glue on End Pin? |
Tom, Thanks for the info. I think I'll do that on my next build, a martin sized jumbo. Joe |
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