That beard's lookin pretty sharp there Chris.
On subject now, nicely done on the tute. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Making Purfling http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23306 |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Making Purfling |
I have started a J-185 and want to make my own purflings. Having only done this with single pins, I am looking for a little input. I believe I can thin stock down to .015-.020" or thereabouts using my thickness sander. If I do single pins, I can easily cut these into 1/16" strips using a straight edge and a knife. For the last two guitars I built, I had no problems installing individual binding and purflings by taping them in place and wicking in CA. Found the process worked great, and I had negligible gap issues. However, my purflings were either single pins or prelaminated fiber purflings. I'd like to make single pins, bend them, and combine them either in twos or threes during glue up. Am I crazy to think I can manage binding and four or five very thin pins (two or three on each side of binding) at the same time? Taking this route would save a fair amount of time as compared to pregluing dark/light or dark/light/dark pins. Ken |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
Ken, what do you mean by a pin? Do you mean just one purfling line? |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
Burton LeGeyt wrote: Ken, what do you mean by a pin? Do you mean just one purfling line? Yes pins=single purfling line. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
Why couldn't you do it? It's the same as doing a rosette isn't it? I install my Top purfling of B/W/B and shell and B/W/B pins or as I call it lines at the same time. Maybe I'm not understanding your question though. I don't know if you have watched my Tut on ablam top purfs or not but you might get some tips on keeping the lines managable by watching it. There is also a tool made from a plane or a plane blade used to size the lines to thickness that the spanish rosette makers use. I use .012"-.024" without bending them for the top but you would need to bend them for the side. I think it would be easier to either glue in the binding first and then the top lines or vise a versa. |
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| Author: | Ken C [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
Chris, I think you understand my question. The b/w/b would be three separate lines rather than one lamination of b/w/b. I don't see why this won't work. When working with a single line or pin rather than three, I use CA to tack my miters then tape up and wick in CA. I may have to use CA to laminate the ends of the pins or lines so I can set my miters, but then I should be able to sandwich the rest of the lines while taping them and the bindings. Ken |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
I can get down to .015 consistently on my 10-20 and if I am up for a little hand work evening things out I can get down to .010 with a carriage underneath the thin veneers. I think you absolutely could do it the way you are describing but why wouldn't you glue up your laminations first? I feel that it makes it so much easier to deal with one piece when trying to hold it in place rather than 3 or 4. The glue up is easy, and it becomes strong enough to cut on the table saw where your accuracy is even greater than a blade by hand. Are you nervous about the glue-up? Either way though, that should work fine. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
Yeah Ken it should work fine. Just tack the start together with CA and make the miter. I back wrap the line together with little pieces of painters tape to act as a buckle as it keeps the lines from flying around and getting tangled with each other. and as I move along I just slide the tape back . Watch my youtube tut and you will get a better idea of what I'm talking about. It's a take off on the buckle idea that Eugene Clark uses. As a matter of fact you might want to read over the Eugene Clark articals in AL#71 and AL#73 for a look at some tools he uses for thicknessing line and how he cuts his lines of veneer. It's well worth the read. The one thing I find difficult about cutting the veneer to width is that if i try and press to hard with the knife blade and it isn't very sharp it will not cut the veneer and the veneer will split with the grain runout. I went to fiber for black and white lines on theis build as they are much easier to work with and I think make for a nicer and cleaner line. |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
Veneer + Spaghetti cutter = Lifetime supply of Purfling strips! I don't have one, but know a few guys who do... and it is a wonderful invention! I have hand cut my veneer purfling strips using a straight edge and a razor blade... I end up making them considerably oversized this way -- like 1/8" x 0.021" and you probably only need ~ half that. You can buy a huge pack of 4' long Maple, Cherry, or Walnut veneer for $15.00 if you look around... Way cheaper than buying the stuff for $0.50/strip! Good luck John |
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| Author: | Mark Groza [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
I find that a paper cutter works great when cutting the perflings into strips from thinned stock. |
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| Author: | Bill Hodge [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
That beard's lookin pretty sharp there Chris. On subject now, nicely done on the tute.
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
That was my winter beard, it's long gone now.
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| Author: | Bill Hodge [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
I've had mine for over 30 years now since my ETS from the Army. But I digress from the current subject. I haven't looked at the whole video yet but was wondering (and you probably mentioned it) were you using fiber sheets or wood veneer that you processed for the purfling strips? |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
Wood in that case. .012"-.024". That's why I cut slow with a light touch because I find the thin stuff has a tendency to split with the runout at times. I want to make a cutting tool like Eugene Clark uses to see if it makes a difference. But for now I've decided to just use fiber for black and white as I think it's makes a cleaner line and no hassel with it splitting. I wonder if those noodle slicers split along the runout or if a cloth cutting wheel would work? |
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| Author: | Bill Hodge [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
Chris Paulick wrote: ...... I wonder if those noodle slicers split along the runout or if a cloth cutting wheel would work? Something tell me you're gonna let us all know as soon as you get done trying them. 
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| Author: | Ken C [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
I was wondering if the cloth cutting wheel would work as well. My wife has one lying around that I may try to use when she is not looking  The fiber is super easy to use, and I have a lot of it lying around, but I don't really have any black/white on the guitar I will be building, so I am trying to use some more natural tones, thus the wood. Ken Chris Paulick wrote: Wood in that case. .012"-.024". That's why I cut slow with a light touch because I find the thin stuff has a tendency to split with the runout at times. I want to make a cutting tool like Eugene Clark uses to see if it makes a difference. But for now I've decided to just use fiber for black and white as I think it's makes a cleaner line and no hassel with it splitting. I wonder if those noodle slicers split along the runout or if a cloth cutting wheel would work?
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
I just posted a discussion on MIMF about what woods are good for the thin purf lines. I tried to cut some bloodwood, purple heart and some others and find that they want to split when slicing with a exacto blade and break when trying to bend a little at the grain runout at the thin thickness. I'm not sure if it's just my technic or not. I thinking that the the tight grain woods like maple, basswood, and holly must be the way to go. Seems like ther is a reason why the Spanish Rosette makers dye them. I would also like to know what other woods are good choices. I would think cherry might be good and citrus wood and boxwood maybe? |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
I gave up on the paper cutters because they weren't nearly long enough. 3' and 4' long veneer strips are "Common" industry sizes... and your average paper cutter does ~11" - 17" long pieces. This may be fine for rosettes, but not nearly enough for doing body purflings.... Typically, they also don't have any good way to clamp down the veneer during the cut... which is important. Scissors just aren't stable enough... I have cut mine by hand with my own home made long cutter... but it is pretty crude and slow and you can't cut really nice narrow strips (1/8" wide is about the smallest safe size) Spaghetti cutters are simply the way to go! Re: veneer strips cracking... Some of that stuff is pretty brittle.. especially the figured stuff that has dried out for 400 +/- years.... One technique I have seen it to lightly dampen it -- like with your wife's spritz bottle hair mister.. Fill with Distilled water (No mineral stains.) Spritz it and let it soak in a little while, then cut. Far more likely to cooperate this way than when bone dry and brittle... Just make sure you use some paper towels and weights when drying... or it will curl like crazy. Good luck John |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
I wonder if SuperSoft would help it cut better? |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
The problem I have with the bloodwood and most of these veneers is that the grain usually doesn't run straight for 36". The .024" bloodwood runs straight on an angle for about 20" then curves off. I cut some purple dyed .012" maple last night at 1/16" strips with no problem. I cut some yellow and it went good except for the last 1 1/2" which was a tad tricky and required a light score of several passes with sharp blade. Whether or not SS would help I also wondered. But I would rather find more friendly user woods to use in the end. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
Waddy Thomson in the other discussion at MIMF said bloodwood is a bit trickyto cut but can be cut if you aline your cuts with the grain as it also does on all veneers. I alined the grain with my parallel bar and with about 4 slow and careful passes of my #11 exacto I was able to cut some purf lines from the .024" Bloodwood. Thanks for the tip Waddy. |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Making Purfling |
I have cut way more bloodwood strips than I would have liked for my latest guitar. Th trick was to do several light cuts with the knife (actually a surgical scalpel) without forcing it. If i try to cut it from a single pass it will certainly split. In fact I found only maple/sycamore can be cut in 1 pass, IF the wood is good. |
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