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Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23071		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
I've heard a lot of bad about waterbased fillers from StewMac and LMI. Anyone have experience with Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler & Glaze? This is what Jeff recommended when I ordered my Emtech 6000. Wondering if its worth trying or should I just go get some paste filler?
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
Doesn't seem to be anyone jumping on this one; of course it hasn't been up that long. I couldn't find any negative reviews during a quick search on the net so I decided to go ahead and try it. I put it on with a foam brush, let it sit for about 5 min then scraped off what I could with a mail ad plastic credit card. I'll sand it back tomorrow night and let everyone know how it goes. In the meantime if anybody has experience with this stuff chime on in.
Author:  David R White [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
Steve, I just tried this for the first time on Imbuia, so here's my two cents. Pores on Imbuia are pretty small so I may have different comments when trying it on a different wood. For the record I have always used epoxy in the past.

I had read that it takes more applications to fill pores than does epoxy, and I agree. For that reason I applied one coat, with a brush, scraped flat with a credit card, let it dry then repeated without sanding. Then sanded did a third coat and moved on to sealing. A more porous wood like EIR probably would have needed more coats.

Compared to epoxy, it has the advantage of being much easier to sand and drying much more quickly, but has the disadvantage of requiring more coats. I don't think I can comment on which pops the grain more, but the Imbuia I have looks pretty good (I'll be posting photos of this in a week or so when I complete the guitar).
Author:  Ken C [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
Lose the HSPF. Used it once. Didn't like it. Tried one more time, and gave up on it.

Ken
Author:  SteveSmith [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
Ken - what are you using now?
Author:  Bill Hodge [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
Steve,

I used it on Quilted Spalted Maple before applying a French Polish. I was pleased with that particular application but have not tried it since. I plan to use it on a Mesquite MJ and a Myrtle Acoustic Bass that I have on the bench right now but it may be a month before those are ready to prep for their finishes.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
I have asked this same question before. Very little positive response. There are some who like it. It appears that you have to apply so many coats making it cost prohibitive. And you can get the same job done with expoxy in two coats. That said, I am not fond of epoxy. Hard to sand, and I do not like the coloration issues.

Mike
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
Well I'm going to continue on for now and I'll post my results.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
Steve, what kind of wood are you filling? I would be interested to hear your results.

Mike
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
Mike, it's walnut. I've also put it on the cocobolo headstock, tail wedge, and heelcap. I'll definitely pass along my results.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
I just sanded down the 1st coat of the Target HSF filler and I think I put it on too thick. Even with scraping it with a credit card before it dried the ridges and blobs were a real pain. Took me about 1 1/2 hours. Of course when I did furniture I used the ROS or a finish sander and very little hand sanding. I don't like hand sanding any more now then I did then - I need to get a small ROS or something I think (maybe a subject for a different thread). Anyway the pores look about half filled but it's hard to tell at this point.

Is there something better to use as a squeegee than a credit card?
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
Yup. A squeegee! Seriously.

But, I find it hard to believe that its hard to sand down. Can't be nowhere as difficult as epoxy. BTW, a short while back I posted a deal regarding an excellent 5" ROS (Porter Cable). Its on Amazon. Was $80, but back to $129. I will say this, even at $129 it is a great deal since it orginally went for over $200. Grep this forum for more info.

This stuff so thick you cannot spray it on?!?


Mike
Author:  Jim Watts [ Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
SteveSmith wrote:
Is there something better to use as a squeegee than a credit card?


Hi Steve, you might try a razor blade. Round off the corners and hone them so you don't scratch anything.

I tried the target stuff once (about 3 years ago) and abandoned it myself. It would be nice if works for you though. keep us posted.
Author:  Carey [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
-There will be varied opinions on this I'm sure but.. in general water-base fillers dry very quickly,
and sanding is sometimes not the best way to deal with the excess. You might try a *vigorous
wipe, almost a scrub* with a paper towel, well-dampened with denatured alcohol, followed by a v light sanding to clear the wood before finishing. I haven't used the product you've mentioned, but I have used many (similar) others.. and done a fair amount of finishing, much of it water-based (not nec by my choice :)) CW
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
Mike O'Melia wrote:
Yup. A squeegee! Seriously.
But, I find it hard to believe that its hard to sand down. Can't be nowhere as difficult as epoxy.
This stuff so thick you cannot spray it on?!
Mike


The first application I just gooped it on and then waited the recommended 2 to 5 min (closer to 5+) then scraped it off with the credit card. I think it had already set up enough that I left too much material on which is why it was hard to sand. Harder than epoxy, maybe not, but I've never tried epoxy as a filler. I've got a 5" ROS and a 1/4 sheet finish sander but would like to find a sander(s) that I could use for details like the neck and waist. Maybe I just haven't developed a light enough touch yet.

The stuff is pretty viscous but could be sprayed with the right equipment.

I'll try a razor blade on it and see how it does when I get back in the shop later.

Carey, I'll try your method out on some scrap. It sure would make things go quicker.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
The second application I put the filler on more sparingly, still used the credit card, and was able to sand back and recoat in just under an hour. I think the biggest problem is the credit card; a proper squeegee would probably work much better and I'm on the lookout for one. If anyone has found something they like, let me know.

I tried a razor blade scraper - it worked but didn't give any particular advantage although it was good for runs or blobs, as expected. I usually have one laying on the bench.

I tested Carey's method with a paper towel dampened in alcohol on scrap and it was much easier to sand back. I suppose it's possible that some of the filler is dragged out of the pores when wiping with the paper towel but this is the method I used on apps 3 and 4. I put the filler on and let it dry for about 2 min. It seems to be working. The filler dries quicker and it took less than 30 min. to sand back and recoat.

I'll to keep at it this until it's done and then update with final results unless I discover something cosmic in the meantime.

Did I mention I hate hand sanding? I ordered a box of P320 for the ROS. I'll see if I can maintain a light enough touch. that should at least speed things up on the back.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Target HSF High Solids Grain Filler - use it or lose it?
Here's a final update in case anyone wants to use this. I ended up doing 6 coats total. On coat 5 I was concerned that the paper towel drag was pulling material out of the pores, even though I had no real evidence. So I just brushed on a thin coat of the filler, much the same way you would apply a finish coat of polyurethane to a piece of furniture. Sanding was still easy and it seemed to fill a little better. I hand sanded with 320 and it took maybe 30 min. Hopefully tomorrow afternoon I can shoot a few coats of shellac then its on to the Emtech 6000.

Whether I use it again or not depends on how the final product looks. It did take more applications than I would like.
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