Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi there,
I am building a classical guitar and the plans call to laminate the sides to make them stifer. I am using indian rosewood for the back/sides and cedar for the sound board, the side laminations are pearwood. I am not convinced yet that this is the right thing to do.
My question is, should I laminate the sides or leave the solid rosewood and reinforced it? also what are the difrences between the two methods?
Thanks in advance.
Danny

_________________
Danny Morales

Which plan is this? I would guess a Ramirez or Friedrich? If you must have a tone close to the original, then by all means laminate them. If you don't care about that and just want a good guitar, then it will depend on your taste. It is a bit difficult to asses the impact of very thick sides, but people do it for several reasons: crack resistance, making a more solid foundation on which the top can vibrate more effectively (the goal likely being more power, clarity, projection) and so on. At the other end there are guitars made from very thin sides. They are much lighter, and I have the feeling the thinner sides help them sound more open and more colored. The very extreme is the wpork of Torres whose sides average only 1mm. I think the Ramirez 1a end up at a "regular" thickness of not much over 2mm, while Friedrich's are close to 4mm unless I'm mistaken.
Most people doing 1 piece solid sides use a standard of about 2mm I think.

BTW, thinner wood (1.8mm and lower) makes bending so much easier (especially helpful with difficult species or figure), however with the laminate method you have to work a lot more...

_________________
Build log

Bogdanovich is a proponent of laminated sides. I used the Torres 1888 plan and followed it pretty closely. The result is a guitar that weighs less than 3lbs and sounds wonderful. Seems to me, albeit limited experience, thick sides laminated sides are overkill. I did reinforce my sides with strips or pillarettes as some call them. I also used a bridge patch which Torres doesn't show in his plan.

_________________
A higher purpose for wood.
Rich Smith
Issaquah, WA

It depends on the philosophy of the sides. Some think it's better to remove the sides from the equation by making them very stiff, that it allows better performance from the top. Others see it differently. I don't think weight is a factor. A Smallman weighs a ton, but it is really really stiff everywhere except the top.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I've built classical guitars both ways and both have produced what I consider to be very successful results. When i started building I avoided laminating my sides because I really don't care for a heavy guitar. I had played a number of guitars with thick, laminated hardwood sides that sounded very nice but just didn't think the weight was very comfortable. Later I read the Bogdonavich book (great book, by the way) and really liked his approach: using a lighter wood for the inner laminate and keeping the total thickness around +/-2.5 mm (not much thicker than a solid side). The results are sides that are nice and stiff, hold their shape extremely well, and weigh aproximately the same as a solid side. He suggests using Sitka or Yellow Cedar for the inner lam. I've mostly used Monterey Cypress. The first time it does take a little longer because you have to make the mold but after that it really doesn't add much time to the build: each side laminate bends easier because it's thinner so you don't have to be quite as careful, and you don't have to take the time to refine you're initial bend or worry about springback because once you laminate, your sides are perfect and they don't move (if you've done it right).
Personally, I love this way of building and don't think I'll go back (I do use solid sides for my flamencos, though). If it was my first guitar, I'd probably stick to solid sides (as mentioned around 2mm). Also, between laminating with heavy hardwood inners and/or making the sides particularly thick, as some do, and using solid sides I would again opt for solid sides: I just don't care for overly heavy guitars (personal preference).

I forgot to mention: I don't think laminating sides as I do where both laminates have the same grain orientation really helps to prevent cracking. So if you do choose to laminate this way I would still add some sort of cross-grain reinforcement.

Thank you all for the replies!
I am using John Bogdanovich plans. I've already bended the sides and they measure 2.1 mm thick, the laminations will make them Iam guessing between 3 and 3.5 mm. this is my first guitar and i dont want to complicate things but I also would like to have a good instrument when I am done and don't mind taking the extra time (just want to do the right thing) with all the different methods available it gets confusing sometimes.
Thanks again.

Danny Morales.

_________________
Danny Morales

There's another way to make stiffer sides: just make them thicker. 3-mm-thick EIR sides are not super hard to bend on a pipe, so I guess it'll be easier with a bending machine. You might like to try this on your favorite model because the effect of thicker sides won't be night and day.