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| Resaw waiting period http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22938 |
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Resaw waiting period |
I"ve recently graduated to resawing my own side and back sets - hold your applause  I know... but hey... it's a big step for me!!So now I need to know how long I should wait before using wood that's been resawed. If the wood has been properly dried before cutting, do you have to wait very long, or just let the wood acclimate to your shop or building area? Thanks for any input and advice. |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
Kiln dried wood could be used fairly soon. It would require stickering and acclimatization to any new environ such as someone else's shop. The longer it's stabilized the better but it could be used fairly soon. 3 to 4 weeks. Non kiln dried wood which for centuries was the norm for musical instruments is a different story. I've sawn Oregon Walnut and Redwood that had water running out of it as it was cut on the bandsaw. That wood needs stickering and will dry better with air movement such as a fan, no heat needed. It will be amazingly dry in three days within a humidity controlled environ. My shop is air conditioned. But even in a shed with a fan you should remove most of the moisture in a few days. Again, the amount of moisture you start with in non kiln dried wood is important. If it's aged 30 years and dry, obviously it requires less dry and sticker time. If it was cut in the last 30 days and you have to care for it, you'll need more time. A meter would be a wonderful tool, but neither I nor anyone I know has one. But it's something to consider. Stradavari made it without one and you can too. All of this requires experience, just like resawing and setup, it doesn't happen overnight. But when you see many different setups it helps you understand. Bob Cefalu has one of the sharpest stickering setups I've seen. Saws with sleds and such are cool, I simply use the stock fence that came with my saw. Drift angle being set is critical. Another thing I learned is to joint the bottom of the billet before sawing, makes a ton of difference. Good luck. |
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| Author: | Bill Hodge [ Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
Bruce........where ya been bro? I was just thinking yesterday how you've not been around in a while.  OK back on subject, what Bruce said! 
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
This wood was thoroughly dried, either kiln or naturally (I suspect the former). I could try to find out exactly how, but there was no moisture whatsoever when I resawed it. Thanks for the very informative reply, Bruce! |
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| Author: | woody b [ Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
I recommend getting a meter. You can get a decent pinless moisture meter for less than a mastergrade Adi top. I don't have on, but have access to one and I've been surprised by some readings. I'd prefer to be surprised before gluing stuff together. |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
I agree with Bruce. Sticker and fans. Checking moisture with a meter won't work once the sets are sawn. They are too thin for the metres to work effectively. To check moisture just keep the wood in a controlled environment and then weigh the wood with an accurate and sensitive scale. Once the wood has acclimated to the environment it will nolonger change in weight. Once it has stabilized for 3 or 4 weeks you can use it....although I tend to agree with most that it is still better to let it sit for as long as you possibly can! Shane |
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| Author: | woody b [ Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
That's interesting Shane. I "assumed" a meter was a substitute for years of experience. I've always left my wood stickered under fans in my shop for at least a month after the meter said it was good. I never thought about weighing it. When I read that it was kinda like a slap on the back of my head. |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
We did an import of Indian Rosewood several years back. Basically they'd ship it to us kiln dried or simply resawn without drying. The majority of luthiers decided on requesting the seller to kiln dry it before shipping so we did. The wood appeared much as all other sets I've procured through Allied and LMI over the years. I don't remember the sawyer, but it was a Canadian who harvested maple. Basically his drying process was to slab the wood into boards, sticker and then endure the low humidity of a shed during a Canadian winter. After that it was fair game for resawing into sets. The thinner a slab of wood, the more quickly it will give up it's moisture. So theoretically a 3/16 inch slice of claro walnut will dry quicker than a 2 1/2 inch billet, and it does. Just consider all the surface area created by resawing, bunches more of surface, hence more quickly drying wood. And don't negate the use of forced air of a simple fan. I've stickered and let stacks dry without it, and it can takes weeks. But two to three days of forced air and it appears completely dry to touch. I'll even unsticker then stand individual slices at angles on the floor against benches and tables to allow even more stabilization before sanding and taping up into sets. A simple thing I learned stickering really wet wood, wet the stickers. Pigment in the wood can migrate toward dry stickers due to moisture transfer. By wetting the stickers it eliminates or slows pigment transfer in the wood. Hi Bill, "Where ya been?" I ask myself the same question at times. So many irons, so many fires. I suppose I've been more of a wandering generality than a meaningful specific, lately. I do look in the shop door occasionally and wonder what all that stuff is for. |
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
Bruce Dickey wrote: Pigment in the wood can migrate toward dry stickers due to moisture transfer. By wetting the stickers it eliminates or slows pigment transfer in the wood. Hmmm... is this why there's sometimes a faint trace of the stickers left on some wood? I bet it is... I've been wondering what's up with that. |
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
Bruce Dickey wrote: Pigment in the wood can migrate toward dry stickers due to moisture transfer. By wetting the stickers it eliminates or slows pigment transfer in the wood. Hmmm... is this why there's sometimes a faint trace of the stickers left on some wood? I bet it is... I've been wondering what's up with that. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
If the wood is air dried you need at least a 2 week dry off period. Stickering and air movement is important . If the wood was at 8% before cutting I may use it. Weight is a good control , also take a piece and sand it on a belt sander and take the dust. If it cakes up in your first let it dry more. The dust will pack if the wood is wet. While this may not be 100% it does let you know on most woods. I also use 3/4 inch stickers. I like to stack them in sets and clamp them down. After a week I will flip the set so that I have a new side exposed to air. You want to keep the odd side when cutting . I will lay that out when I want to see if the wood is stable. If the piece cups , you need more dry time. If my wood is wet as was pointed out above , Some woods come in green and that will take a while to dry. I like to let is set a year. Keep an eye on your clamps . As the wood shrinks you need to retighten them. Resawing can be an enjoyable part of building. You will soon see that it is a skill and just another part of the building process. |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
As others here have mentioned.... if the wood is already good and dry (Kiln dry or several years air dried) -- Resaw it, then stick it up for a week or two inside the shop to let it acclimate. This will also let you watch out for shifting/twisting from the internal stresses changing. It seems like it all pretty much immediately cups a little, then flattens back out after a couple days stickered up. In reality, my "Resawing" rate far exceeds my "Usage" rate.... so wood I have resawed tends to sit much longer on average. The first wood I have resawed is now going on 3 months.... with no signs of immediate consumption. I have pulled it out several times to look at... and it hasn't moved after that immediate cupping and flattening back out. I think the biggest movement I have seen so far is in any wood coming in from suppliers. I open the box and their beautiful flat tops and backs and sides wood cups and bows. I stick it up and it is fine again after a week. Good luck John |
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| Author: | Ken Mitchell [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
John & John, All very good info to have. Thanks so much! I did see some minimal cupping when I cut this lumber, but it's flattened out pretty well after being stickered for 2-3 days. Sounds like I should let it sit there for awhile though. Which works out fine. I've got plenty of other woods I can use. ----- Bruce - This pigment transfer thing is quite a mystery to me, though... I guess it's a good idea to rotate your wood periodically, and turn the isides of sets toward the outside (?) ----- |
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| Author: | Randolph [ Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Resaw waiting period |
Here's a question on wood movement with semi-green wood. Is there a minimal thickness for resawing into sets when wood is not totally dry? Would Claro walnut cut from a 2 1/2" billet that has been air drying for 1 year be able to be resawn into sets 150 thousands thick (without cupping damage?) How about 120 thousands? This wood would obviously be somewhat green, especially toward the center. |
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